Combat Technique Improvement Advice

[Ferigno]

Hey all,

To begin, I'm extremely happy that a solid sim franchise like IL-2 is coming out on a console, because purchasing a computer that actually runs competitively is a pretty intense requirement. I have a pilot's license, but god knows that being able to fly a Cessna is not quite the same as gunning down a speeding enemy.

SO.... I've been reading "check six" and "In Pursuit" on the advice of a bunch of threads, and would really like to be a competent, skilled pilot. I'm willing to study and learn.

I have an AV8R-2, and fired up the demo. It seems like the p51 stalls like crazy every time I even attempt a manoever, but that's an aside. Some of the real problems I have concern cockpit visibility, and just knowing where I am without being able to clearly see instruments.

What suggestions do the true simmers have to begin the improvements needed to actually be competitive? How did you guys begin?

Could this question be any more broad?

[butterfield]

Originally Posted by Ferigno

Hey all,

To begin, I'm extremely happy that a solid sim franchise like IL-2 is coming out on a console, because purchasing a computer that actually runs competitively is a pretty intense requirement. I have a pilot's license, but god knows that being able to fly a Cessna is not quite the same as gunning down a speeding enemy.

SO.... I've been reading "check six" and "In Pursuit" on the advice of a bunch of threads, and would really like to be a competent, skilled pilot. I'm willing to study and learn.

I have an AV8R-2, and fired up the demo. It seems like the p51 stalls like crazy every time I even attempt a manoever, but that's an aside. Some of the real problems I have concern cockpit visibility, and just knowing where I am without being able to clearly see instruments.

What suggestions do the true simmers have to begin the improvements needed to actually be competitive? How did you guys begin?

Could this question be any more broad?

Buy a PC. (just kidding)

Once the audio is fixed in BOP hopefully you won't have the tendancy to stall so much. You will hear the plane shuddering beforehand and ease off the controls.

My advice is to just keep reading, reading, reading. Here's a good place to start:

http://combat-asylum.com/uploads/dow...ogfighting.pdf



As far as cockpit visibility, knowing where you are and what your plane is doing...it's going to take some serious practice. Especially without TrackIR. It's going to be hard to go back to the hatswitch .... it freakin sucks. Anyway, when you first play online your going to notice every wannabe pilot is going to be thinking in the horizontal plane only. Meaning everyone is going to be turning turning turning for position like a dog chasing its tail or a game of battlefield 1943. Then there will be a few coming from IL2 PC (and you will be able to tell them apart...trust me). They will be thinking in all dimensions using the horizontal as well as vertical plane, keeping their fighter in "high energy" positions and always one step ahead of their adversaries. It's going to be very frustrating for beginners that know nothing about combat flight going up against a veteren. This is not a FPS where the player with the best aim or reflexes wins...it's all about tactics and knowing what is good and bad for the individual fighters. Hopefully everyone will catch up quickly though with plenty of practice. I'm sure some good times are going to be had

[Ferigno]

Yeah. The visibility thing, and just being spacially aware of where I am is tricky. Frankly, figuring out where the enemy is... period... is tricky right now.

Learning about energy and tactics has frankly been entertaining enough as it is, without even practicing. I'm sure that'll wear off eventually. lol

I'll read through that doc. I'll be happy when the day comes where I can do these things
1: View the field and feel comfortable with visibility
2: Identify who's an idiot, and who I should stay VERY far away from
3: Have a positive kill/death ratio
4: Mock and taunt people from the comfort of my own living room.

Well, the last one is sort of a personal thing.

[butterfield]

Originally Posted by Ferigno

Yeah. The visibility thing, and just being spacially aware of where I am is tricky. Frankly, figuring out where the enemy is... period... is tricky right now.

Trust me I fully understand where you are coming from. I remember being frustrated when I first started on the PC version. It's hard to be fully aware of everything when your altitude is 10,000 meters and your looking through a square hole which is your monitor. There could be a number of things going on behind or below the plane and you won't even have a clue. Eventually I learned little tricks like flying inverted for short periods of time or 'dipping' my wing to look down below, also pulling back on the stick while banking to look behind you. Of course you will need to be doing this while using the free look. It will all start to become second nature eventually.

[Ferigno]

Agreed. Visibility is the first thing I need to get used to. I'll try the inverted thing. Dipping the wings is something I sort of do naturally while scoping out everything. Using the hat is not natural for me whatsoever. It's kinda like a 14 year old learning to drive; when I look right out my window, I drive my car into the curb.

I wonder if the AV8R will be as good as it gets for the x360. I'm curious if they branch out the options. This seems to be the first legit sim on a console. I'm really excited.

And the audio fix for stalling the plane? I have no idea why I didn't think of that. Of course that's screwing me up. Makes perfect sense that I would be expecting to hear my engine struggle before the wings go. I was pretty confused without it.

[Whiskey Red]

Coming from PC, this will be an interesting experience. I agree 100% with everything that's been said. Maintain your energy conservation. Never make flat turns unless you have too. Don't get pulled into to a head-on firing situation unless you have too. Use that as an opportunity to gain airspeed, altitude and energy and let your opponent waste his ammo and energy advantage by trying to shoot you as you maneuver away (remember, most HOs only give you 50/50 shot at coming out of the other side as the victor).

Also, always keep an eye on your target. Even with indicator arrows (which I'm glad to see sim mode won't have) you are still best to keep the target in your field of view. You lose sight of him, and he has the advantage.

Eventually, you'll need to study "scissor" tactics when the enemy has you out maneuvered and on your tail, as well as "boom and zoom" tactics for less maneuverable but faster fighters (like several of the American planes); or for anytime you have an altitude advantage.

Remember, it's all a function of energy. Altitude (potential energy) can be converted to airspeed (kinetic energy) which can be used for maneuvering and simply keeping the plane airborne. The engine is a device that provides both kinetic and potential energy. If you run out of everything, or get too far behind the power curve, then you’re done. And, just like in real life, you will gain the most amount of energy back the fastest simply by lowering your nose. Adding power when you're alread slow and nose high will not be enough to bring you out of a stalled situation, or put you on the positive side of the power curve. These fighters have less than a 1 to 1 power ratio, unlike jets. That's why energy management, and not throttle management, is so important.

Finally, really get to know your plane and your oppents' planes. Know what advatange you have over them and try to use it as best you can. If all skill sets are equal, it will be the person that knows how to exploit his plane's strengths, and his oppoents weaknesses, the best that will win. If your plane is faster, but less maneuverable, don't get into a turning fight, but use your speed to maintain that energy advantage and engage only when you're ready, etc.

Hope this helps!

[Ferigno]

So here's a question that a lot of people are probably wondering. Will the final release of this game likely have some sort of training mode that will actually guide you into learning manoevers like a BnZ attack or a rolling scissors (especially this one)? Have past versions on the PC had that? I think it would be extremely helpful.

[The_Goalie_94]

Originally Posted by Ferigno

So here's a question that a lot of people are probably wondering. Will the final release of this game likely have some sort of training mode that will actually guide you into learning manoevers like a BnZ attack or a rolling scissors (especially this one)? Have past versions on the PC had that? I think it would be extremely helpful.

demo has training.

[Ferigno]

Well, the demo has training, but not in the kind that I'm talking about. I'm talking about combat manoevers. Immelmans, rolling scissors, etc.

[trk29]

Originally Posted by Ferigno

Well, the demo has training, but not in the kind that I'm talking about. I'm talking about combat manoevers. Immelmans, rolling scissors, etc.

From the video that aired the other day, in the encyclopedia it shows what kind of flight maneuvers you can do in 3D.