Seeking input on an exclusively Undead army

[devmoon]

its just that sacrifice seems by reading this forum abit OP and i really dont want to relay on that, but if i want an army mainly made up of undeads there might be no other choice : /

Sacrifice is abusing the games mechanics.

Iknow the game intended you to switch units but hey there are alot of undeads, and they even made some spells only for the undeads so why make them so weak and few in numbers?

there must be some kind of workaround to getting the undead skille to use and have an undead army.

I was thinking high lvl plague for example.

[Jamers]

I disagree that it abuses the game mechanics. I mean, you're permanently losing units, so why not permanently gain other units, with penalties in lowered percentages of raised HP plus the cost of mana and a turn in combat (spell use)?

I feel like since the Mage has lower Leadership and combat attributes, it makes sense that he would rely on clever use of magic to maintain an effective army.

[devmoon]

Im just tired of having to be so utterly careful about my army to not run out of troops and stuff.

The better units are so sparse its insane. Because of this im using houndreds of a bit lower level units. This is the reason i thought about undeads, they are good in numbers

So anyone have any experience with undead armies and the undead spells?

[DavekeC]

I think undead would be a viable and pleasant option if there was some sort of resurection of the fallen skill that not only works on your own losses but on the enemy's losses as well.

Say if you killed an enemy army of mages and you lost x necromancers that the necromancers would be replenished out of your own losses but also out of the destroyed forces. This would be a very welcome strategy for the warrior who has limited acces to sacrifice and resurection and money making the skills. I think there is a certain reason why the dark commander is a might skill. I think warriors are supposed to be using undead with maybe a mix of black & red dragons in between them for later game.

[Namel]

Originally Posted by devmoon

If you really wanted maybe it can be possible on hard or so. ghosts and cursed ghosts are really good because they only increase but im having big troubles with the increasing amounts since i must kill them off myself (any solutions to this one?)

There is few ways to handle ghosts multiplying too fast..
-Reserve skills. Keep only about 80% of max leadership of ghosts. And put extras in reserve. Of course if you lose control in battle this won't help.
-Healing. Cast heal on ghost stack if you lose control. It will kill some.
-Sacrifice. Use ssacrife spell on ghosts to make other units.

[megajon]

Do you loose controll of a unit mid combat if their numbers are too big? Or does this only happen when you start the combat with too big of numbers?


If it is the latter, you could always just garrison the excess post combat.

[Quikpik]

Originally Posted by megajon

Do you loose controll of a unit mid combat if their numbers are too big? Or does this only happen when you start the combat with too big of numbers?


If it is the latter, you could always just garrison the excess post combat.

Could be both. If some friendly units join you that take you over the leadership cap, then you go into a battle those units will be out of control at the onset.

[Kosiciel]

It could happen in combat (especially on hard and impossible), after using sacrifice or ghost killing some enemies. Not so great

[sector24]

Originally Posted by Jamers

So I'm about to finish the game with a Paladin, and I'm considering next time through playing as a Mage and using a fully undead army as soon as I get the chance....

If you are lucky and get sacrifice very early in the game, you could have an army of:

Ghosts
Cursed Ghosts
Vampires
Ancient Vampires
Skeleton Archers

by the time you are ready to go to Freedom Isles. There are two shipwrecks, one in Greenwort and one in Arlania. Hopefully that will grant you at least Cursed Ghosts, but better if you get both. Vampires and Ancient Vampires can be obtained in small numbers in the graveyard via coffins lying on the map (already mentioned earlier). You would have to use sacrifice to bolster their numbers. Skeleton Archers should be available via shipwreck or one of the vendors in the graveyard. You also have a very high chance of getting a small stack of friendlies from a sarcophagus. Personally I would stay away from skeletons and zombies because they're not my style, but you'll get small stacks of friendlies in the graveyard and in the Freedom Isles graveyard on the Western Islands.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Anyway, the idea is I would be able to dual-cast each turn, and I could hypnotize / sacrifice or just blast away or whatever. I'd have the zombie wife for the bonus speed and initiative which would come in handy for the entire game.

I think this would work, using hypnotize/sacrifice plus the soul draining ability of your ghost stacks to top off your vampire and skeleton archer stacks. Also, vampires life steal up to their original number plus they have the no retaliation ability, so they are fairly durable. Skeleton Archers would die in droves, but they'd be easy to replace. With a mage's intelligence, you could restore 100+ skeleton archers per casting of sacrifice.

Now, the problem is that your only upgrades from that initial army are Bone Dragons and Necromancers. You can get a Bone Dragon egg in the Gremlin Castle, but Necromancers are not available until late in the game.

Originally Posted by Jamers

I posted a question earlier about the mechanics of Necromancy and Necro Call, as I'm not sure exactly how these work. If someone could help me out here or on that post, I'd really appreciate it and it may change my whole position on this idea.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I don't think Necromancy gives you extra units. It just minimizes your losses by giving you back a % of dead units at the end of battle. Necro Call gives you extra undead in combat, but they only last for the duration of that combat, so that's not terribly useful either. But again, I haven't used either of these skills extensively so don't quote me on it.

Honestly, I agree with the other posters that it would probably get boring playing with the same army for most of the game. But the only way to know for sure is to go for it.

[DavekeC]

Why keep the same army ?

You can always just switch some of the units into dragons ...
As far as i know "neutral animals" do not get negative morale from undead.
At least the black dragons didn't so you can replace whatever u want ( probably the lesser ghosts & vampires by black and red dragons) Zombies are also very durable and you can get their speed up with a mass haste
(since movement is problem for all undead) Still getting your army back after the battle to full should be the undeads primary force.

This would allow a pure warrior to be balanced vs mages / paladins concerning expenditures on troops imo ... Thats the whole idea of undead no ?