Thinking about a Community Patch

[lonewulf]

It sounds to me as though this could result in further divisions within the community. While it's true that modding greatly improved the old IL-2 game, it also effectively killed it in the end by splitting the community into far too many mod-based factions that typically lacked the critical mass needed to succeed.

If a 'community patch' means that the number of servers increase but player numbers on those servers goes down, then I'd be opposed to the idea.

[SiThSpAwN]

I dont think you need to sweat Steam too much, I think you could work around it, the only issue would be after the sequel and how it all meshes together with that and mods...

[Feathered_IV]

This has more for the benefit of offline players perhaps. I wouldn't go messing about with FM's online yet. Might not go over well with Steam. Other mods work fine though. Beta patches are a sort of mod after all.

For what its worth, here is the HurricaneMkI_RotolRMS-7_100oct.fmd
Certainly makes for interesting reading.

;
[Aircraft]
;

Wingspan 40 ft
Length 32 ft 3 inch

;
[Systems]
;

Propulsion Engine Rolls-Royce MerlinIII-RG-Hurricane-100-octane Propellor Rotol RMS-7
Pneumatics Source Engine0 Pressure 300 lbsqin PrimaryContainer 4 litre Starts Open, Full SecondaryContainer 4 litre Starts Closed, Empty
Hydraulics Source Engine0 Pressure 40 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt
Electrics Source Engine0 Voltage 12.0 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM
LandingFlaps Hydraulic Extends 8.0 sec
Undercarriage Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Inwards OperatesThrough 200 knots EmergencySystem Nil SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 2.5 Tail 0.9 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2
WheelBrakes Pneumatic Efficiency 1.0
Hatch0 Mechanical Motion Type Sliding Time 1.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.5 sec
PitotHeater Electrical

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[Controls]
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Aileron Slider Threshold 320 kmh
Elevator Slider Threshold 320 kmh
Rudder Slider Threshold 360 kmh
AileronTrim Nil Default 0.040
ElevatorTrim Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default -0.01
RudderTrim Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.07

EngineThrottle Slider
EnginePitch Slider
EngineMix Toggle
EngineMagneto0 Toggle
EngineMagneto1 Toggle
EngineRadiator Slider
EngineBoostCutOut Toggle
EngineSlowRunningCutOut PushButton

LandingFlaps Switch Up Neutral Down
Undercarriage Switch Up Neutral Down
WheelBrakes PushButton
HydraulicsHandPump PushButton
TankSelector0 CyclicSwitch Close Main Auxilary Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 0 to Engine 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to Engine 0 Selection 2 Flow FuelTank 2 to Engine 0
Kraftstoff CyclicSwitch Left Centre Right
AltimeterPinion Rocker Range 800 to 1045 Default 1000 mbar
DirectionPinion Rocker
CourseSetterPinion Rocker
Puppet0PriPitLight Slider
Puppet0SecPitLight Slider
Puppet0SightLight Toggle
AcemakerSight Distance Slider Range 150 to 600 Default 400 yd Side Slider Range 100 to 30 Default 30 ft Dimmer Toggle
PitotHeater Toggle

Puppet0Hatch Switch Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0
Puppet0Jettison ExpendableSwitch Off Off On Selection 2 Sheds Hatch 0

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[Instruments]
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EngineFuelPress Mechanical Range 0 to 5 lbsqin
EngineOilPress Hydraulic Range 0 to 150 lbsqin
EngineOilTemp Hydraulic Range 0 to 100 C
EngineWaterTemp Hydraulic Range 0 to 140 C
EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range -4.0 to +12.0 lbsqin
EngineRPM Electrical Range 1600 to 4000 RPM
Speedometer Mechanical Range 0 to 440 mph Pitot Pioneer
Altimeter Mechanical Dimension feet
Variometer Mechanical Range -4000 to 4000 feetperminute
MagneticCompass Mechanical JamAngle 12.5 deg
SlipIndicator Mechanical Amplitude 20.0 deg
TurnIndicator Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min
ArtificialHorizon Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -60 to 60 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg
DirectionIndicator Mechanical Source Primary
FuelReserve Electrical Range 0 to 37 gal KraftstoffSwitching Selection 0 Shows FuelTank 0 Selection 1 Shows FuelTank 2 Selection 2 Shows FuelTank 1

GyroFeed Primary Pneumatic Secondary Nil

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[Mass]
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Empty 2495 kg
TakeOff 3311 kg
Fuel 427 litre
FuelTanks Aluminum 150 litre Aluminum 150 litre Aluminum 127 litre
FuelFillingOrder Tanks 0 1 Tank 2

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[Squares]
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Wing 23.92 m2
Aileron 1.78 m2
Flap 2.38 m2
Stabilizer 2.80 m2
Elevator 1.60 m2
Keel 0.90 m2
Rudder 1.40 m2

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[Arm]
;

Aileron 4.56 m
Flap 1.65 m
Stabilizer 5.41 m
Keel 5.64 m
Elevator 6.12 m
Rudder 6.18 m
Wing_In 0.75 m
Wing_Mid 2.31 m
Wing_Out 4.69 m
GCenter 0.00 m
GCenterZ 0.00 m
GC_AOA_Shift 0.50 m
GC_Flaps_Shift 0.15 m
GC_Gear_Shift -0.1 m
Wing_V 3.0

;
[Params]
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SpinCxLoss 0.08
SpinCyLoss 0.03

Vmin 150.0 kmh
Vmax 418.0 kmh
VmaxAllowed 700.0 kmh
VmaxH 527.0 kmh at 6100 m
VminFLAPS 130.0 kmh
VmaxFLAPS 250.0 kmh
Vz_climb 15.0 ms
V_climb 270.0 kmh
T_turn 19.0 sec
V_turn 290.0 kmh
K_max 13.0
FlapsMult 1.1
FlapsAngSh 4.0

RangeAbility 850 km

SensYaw 0.45
SensPitch 0.66
SensRoll 0.15

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[Polares]
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lineCyCoeff 0.090
AOAMinCx_Shift 1.4760736
Cy0_0 0.14
AOACritH_0 15.5
AOACritL_0 -15.0
CyCritH_0 1.1746255
CyCritL_0 -0.91520053
CxMin_0 0.0238
parabCxCoeff_0 7.5E-4
Cy0_1 0.4086449
AOACritH_1 14.5
AOACritL_1 -19.0
CyCritH_1 1.5095204
CyCritL_1 -0.7
CxMin_1 0.06892961
parabCxCoeff_1 9.2E-4

parabAngle 8.0
Decline 0.005
maxDistAng 40.0

[SiThSpAwN]

It would be interesting to see if a team could tackle one of the none flyable aircraft and make it flyable, complete with clickable cockpit, etc. I know that Luthier said it was too expensive to add new aircraft for free in his answers, but the modding community would be a great fit for that.

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

Since the dust has settled somewhat on the Q&A session and some of the answers have brought a few unwelcome truths home. I've pretty much come to terms with the idea that there is no rescue ship coming for clod....

What exactly is it that you miss?
As I understand it CoD will be updated when the sequel comes out, and from then on improvements will continue that affect that merged version of the game.

As far as weathering goes Luthier never said that skin weathering would never be addressed, just that he thought it wasn't 'terrible'. I'm sure gameplay, weathering (permanent heavy weathering on British fighters) and lots of the other present issues (bridges, wave height, AI tactics, AI response, clouds) will be resolved in good time. At the moment the emphasis must be on getting the game stable and not introducing any other issues. All must be hunk dory before the merge of CoD and BoM. Getting CoD smooth and glitch free is the priority.
Once everything is working OK then the merge can occur and after that global improvements and added features can come.

The map/maps we will be able to edit when the planned user tools become available, and Luthier has definitely not abandoned the development of these.

What, as you see it, are the specific failings of CoD that can't be resolved after the merge?

[SiThSpAwN]

Originally Posted by major_setback

What exactly is it that you miss?
As I understand it CoD will be updated when the sequel comes out, and from then on improvements will continue that affect that merged version of the game.

I didnt think that improvements from the sequel will be ported over to CLoD, least thats how I have been reading things... I could be wrong of course...

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN

I didnt think that improvements from the sequel will be ported over to CLoD, least thats how I have been reading things... I could be wrong of course...

I was unclear.
I meant that global improvements to the merged version would affect CoD as a part of the merged CoD/BoM.

Any aircraft, flight model, AI improvement can come in the future. As Luthier said, until now all time has gone to sorting out glitches. Next, the improvement of the game can begin.

luthier:
Your general criticism is spot on. We shipped a product that had too many technical issues for us to really focus on finer elements of gameplay. There had never been a point, we're not even there today, where we could sit back, look at the code, and say, hell, what a great foundation, let's build a great game on top of it.

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

...

The interesting bit was when I considered that the files in front of me were for the latest version of the game. What If I rolled back the previous patch and made a dump of that version and compared the differences? What if I did the same for the ones before that, or the V1 Collectors Edition?

Maybe it would be possible to pull some of the best bits out of each version and make a sort of compilation mod. Get the decent looking Spit's weathering layer from the early build and use it instead of the messy current one for example. Extract the earlier landshading files and use them instead. Tweak the tree textures, fix the dust particles, revert to a Hurricane FM that will start up...

There are a lot of things we can do. The files are right there in the open once you extract them. Nothing much seems hashed or encrypted and just about everything can be opened in notepad. It would be baby steps at first, but those who were around during the early days of Il-2 modding at AAA would remember how things started out. It was an exciting time, exchanging ideas and techniques. Learning about the game and how it all worked.

Anyone with experience in modding work, I'd urge you to take a look inside Cliffs Of Dover. There is a lot to see. If anyone can recall elements of previous patches or versions that had things that were working nicely and are now busted... maybe speak up and link to the patch in question. Maybe we can fix things after all!

I'm really not sure that it would be as easy as a simple 'mix and match' strategy. There are likely to be dependencies between files of a particular version that will break the game if replaced by those from a different version.

It may be possible to do some simple things but it could turn into a Frankenstein's monster situation.

Also, as for il-2 mods, getting agreement from the community as a whole that a particular change is an improvement could be difficult.

Overall I'm not really in favour.

Luthier has said that the FMs will continue to be worked on until they're good enough, and when the map sdk is released then there should be big improvements made to the main map.

Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN

I didnt think that improvements from the sequel will be ported over to CLoD, least thats how I have been reading things... I could be wrong of course...

No, they will - things like weather, AI improvements, Comms, etc, etc.

[David198502]

where are the FM files, and how can one open them???
i dont want to change them, but only have a look and see if they can reveal some answers on questions Luthier and the team dont think its necessary to comment.

[Catseye]

Here we go again opening Pandora's Box!