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| IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator. |
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#21
07-26-2008, 09:15 AM
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I am interested in the development of an affordable full length stick.
I admire the dedication and passion of C6 Trollbugs sticks (and this is reflected in the undoubted quality of his product) . At the same time I think Mr Shmid has a great looking stick, and I am excited that there are options availible. For me the moddified x52 will have to suffice for a long time yet, but I would happily spend the same amount for again for something that looks and feels a wee bit like something from the 40's. For heavens sake there is cheap labour in China! Why cant we get something affordable??? 
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#22
07-26-2008, 12:53 PM
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Hi,
i have one of Mr. Schmidts KG 13 Flightstick (Beta-Testing Prototype)in "test, over weeks"  I must say, it's a great Stick!!! I fly IL2-1946 (since 2001) with a Hotas Cougar Joystick and i have no problems to change from Hotas Cougar to Mr. Schmidts Flightstick! The Stick is, what "Hardcore - Fly-Simers" want! I have no Understandig to one Posting here, that says Mr. Schmidts Flightstick are bad  Anybody ought to herself the Stick he want --- and can buy!!! Sticks over > 400 Euro are allways hard stuff for the most Simers! Best Regards! 76.IAP_Bibi
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#23
07-26-2008, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Was hoping someone who had tried Schmids stick would show up! does your stick have the hall sensors or the pots in the base? did you get it from Simware?
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#24
07-26-2008, 08:29 PM
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Tell us how you really feel about that other stick Trollbug!
 It's nice to see a few more groups entering into this aspect of flight controls. While I can perhaps understand why the producers might not like the competition, the consumers certainly should! Since we’re being brutally honest, the prices of these sticks are just too much for me unless they are without compromise - I guess if I didn't have any other hobbies I might go for it - but between the combination of high price, and poor mechanical approximations, it seems that if I want a realistic stick, I should just fly real airplanes. . .and use cheap joysticks to help save cash for that. . .so that’s what I do. If there really was a great stick out there that really was realistic, not just in cosmetics, but in action, I'd go for it. I for one haven't found a stick yet that is very realistic in use save for the FSSB force sensor mod for the Cougar which is only accurate when compared to a fly by wire F-16 that it is simulating. Of course that's a pretty easy thing to emulate since the stick has hardly any movement at all, and thus, no "action" to speak of! Conventional cable or torque tube actuated flight controls certainly present the greatest challenge since a real aircraft transmits ever changing loads through the stick, it needs a long range of motion, and a range of stick forces and centering feel depending on the aircraft type and flight condition. This last thing seems to be the big issue with the Tarmac Aces stick. Without centering forces, it simply isn't a simulation of the real thing. I guess I can tolerate the fact that my 109 doesn’t need a 60 pound pull on the elevator when at 550 kmh, but there really should be some attempt at increased forces as speed builds, and there must be centering forces too. Even in modern aerobatic aircraft where stick forces and centering forces are comparatively low they, are not absent! The progressive increase in stick forces as the surface travels towards its limits, and as speed changes, are critical components of feel, as are the centering forces. If I bought one, I'd have to modify it to generate some sort of centering force system, and for the same price I paid for my commercial pilot certificate, it better be finished already, otherwise I'd just build my own. I guess I'm posting this because I keep seeing posts touting the non centering mechanism of the Tarmac Aces stick as if that is a good thing. Then to see the competition's stick get ripped apart in this thread based on cosmetics alone, without anyone talking about how it actually performs. . . some of us want feel more than we want looks. But if I read it right, Tarmac Aces wouldn’t sell him a stick because his cockpit wasn’t good enough?!?! I guess looks are really important to some. Last edited by TX-EcoDragon; 07-26-2008 at 08:44 PM.
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#25
07-26-2008, 10:02 PM
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@Tx_Ecodragon :
Our project began in 2005 by a thread launched by a simmer on the Checksix! forum . This simmer is a pilot pro , in real life. He had the same dream of yours : a joystick of high precision with a real force feedback mechanism . With a real trim . I was tired of my Cougar . Two monthes after I bought it , it's mechanism was replaced by a home-made gimbal , mounted on micro ball bearings , with traction springs . But twice the year , it's pots had to be cleaned ... And a F16 stick for piloting warbirds ....  The meeting of the other members if Tarmac Aces was decisive : a retired pilot of the French Air Force , fanatic of IL2 too , and a collector of WWII accessories . We putted together our ideas and decided to try . The first step was to realise a mechanical base , the most accurate and reliable , on which different kind of grips could be easily fitted. This base had been conceived to be upgradable by a force feedback module , fitted under it. But first , we had to valid the concept , the idea . That's why we carried out a second grip , asked by simmers , a jet grip . And also asked by simmers , a third , this week , for gliders or acrobatics (this one is not a replica  ) That's why we carry out a gas throttle, and a rudder .The second step is to realize this force feedback module , and the trim wheel (this one is easy to carry out , and designed yet). Thanks to a french simmers club , I met a simmer , computer scientist . He's interested by this project , and will work on it with us . Our first step is not finished yet , but we're already working on the second one . The simmer which launched this thought , on the Checksix! forum , was our first customer . Other pilots in real life bought it too . They are all satisfied by their purchase . And wait the second step ... Last edited by C6_Trollbug; 07-26-2008 at 10:05 PM.
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#27
07-27-2008, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
 i think your cockpit looks very good !i have 2 questions for you, if you have a moment. have you considered using a generic cockpit structure for your sim pit where you can fit different cockpit strut shapes on top to represent the forward view in a 109, spitfire, p51 etc.. ? right now the visibility from the cockpit is always for a 190. that way the main instruments of the cockpit itself would stay the same and have a generic layout, and no different hardware or wiring is needed, but for people flying ww2 sims they are then not restricted to a "one model cockpit", since the visibility from the cockpit and the shape/size of struts is so different in various ww2 warbirds. purchasers could then initially buy the cockpit in one configuration, and later buy at a minimal cost a "cockpit canopy" for a different ww2 warbird (that would simply be the cockpit struts seen on the forward view, maybe with the shaped surface that represents the top of the instrument pannel) secondly, what type of projector and screen are you using for your setup ? right now it looks like a standard flat projector screen is placed in front of the cockpit, and it is placed a fair distance from the viewer, this then gives a fairly narrow forward view (30 or 40 degrees ?). have you considered using a curved projection surface to improve peripheral vision, and placing the screen closer to the cockpit ? (placing the screen closer to the viewer increases resolution and detail, and requires a less large screen because it occupies a relatively large part of the viewers vision) there are several companies that now sell curved projection screens for smaller home theater setups, one of those in the smaller sizes they make them in would be perfect with your cockpit ! combined with one projector it can display video on a curved screen that represents about 120 degrees of visual field, the increased peripheral vision in a flightsim really improves the immersion factor ! this gives an idea of those curved screens, an italian company that makes many sizes in curved screens (and different degrees of screen curve) http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-curve-p...or-screen.html with many size options http://www.smxscreen.com/pro-curve-p...en-sizing.html another company making some curved screens (solid projection surface i think) http://www.videoscreens.net/curved%20screens.htm (their website is not well designed, poor illustrations) Model 3000...80 Inch Diagonal (2 meter diagonal) Model 6900...120 Inch Diagonal (3 meter diagonal) demo vid clip: http://www.floridamusicco.com/videos...arge-H.264.mov another new curved monitor that might be worth integrating with a cockpit, but the fact the viewer needs to sit close to it might be a problem in interfering with the physical size and shape of your cockpit..... the rear projection alienware display (but is "only" equivalent to 2x 24' displays joined together, and requires special resolutions). at least it gives people a taste of curved screen gaming to improve peripheral vision ! http://uk.gizmodo.com/2008/01/10/ces...utrageous.html Last edited by zapatista; 07-27-2008 at 04:48 AM.
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#28
07-27-2008, 07:34 AM
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Hello Windturbin,
i have Mr. Schmidts Flightstick with "Poti" in Test! The Flightstick is one of the first (ten) Sticks from the Series! I became the Stick to Test from Mr. Schmidt himself, not from SimWare! I dont no, what "Release" the KG 13 Flightsticks (including Software) from SimWare are? I can say, the Flightstick have a very realistic "handling". The Mechanic are very solid. As "old" Hotas Cougar User have the Stick to few Buttons for me ... but's realisticRegards Bibi
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#29
08-05-2008, 07:16 AM
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First off, I would like to thank both Mr.Schmid and Tarmac Aces for their contribution to the WWII sim genre.
From pictures and video files alone, I am very impressed with both products. I stumbled upon this thread after building my own base for a flight stick. I was always sick of the tiny movements of most plastic joysticks, and decided to manufacture a "full-throw" stick using hall sensors instead of pots. After completing this, I starting looking for a nice grip to top off my creation and found this nice little thread! I am very impressed gentlemen. I have been thinking about how to manufacture something similar for myself. After looking at both of your products, I have decided to start saving my pennies...
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#30
08-05-2008, 09:50 AM
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I think there is no question that both producers are passionate about their product. Thats a very good thing, the sim market is ruled too much by the usual brands like Logitech, Saitek etc. In the a "bang for a buck" category those sticks deliver honest quality, without any really pleasent surprise though...not even the X52. For example, I can not understand why a trim wheel is not incorporated in ALL sticks from the start. There shoud not even be a stick produced without one.
The french stick and throttle look fantastic, but they are really way too expensive for the wallet of the usual simmer. This does not mean they dont deserve their price. It's just a question of what most can afford. I hope that both producers are successful so that a lower price in the future becomes possible.
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