Spit IIa is now so much more inferior to the 109

[ReconNZ]

Originally Posted by Insuber

I'm a blue pilot, but I flew a couple of hours on ATAG as a red one just to test the new FM's. I had several dogfights on the Spit IIa with 109's and never lost one. I have indeed reversed tables regularly when attacked by surprise from behind, with the automagical Spit no-E-loss-1 barrel-roll maneuver. In horizontal there is no way a Spit could loose, in vertical it's slightly more difficult but still feasible. The 30-40% more lift and speed is a very inaccurate estimate, IMO, in a 1 vs 1 the Spit IIa has better chances than the 109. This matches my experience on the 109, the Spit IIa is still a superior plane in co-E 1 vs 1.

I friendly suggest you to fly a 109 and go against the Spit II, just to make yourself an idea.

Cheers!

Mate I disagree, sure a good spit pilot can beat a poor 109er, but two good pilots, the 109 will dominate every time. All the 109 needs to do is boom and zoom and let their cannons get 1-shot 1 kills as they most often do. The spit is a sitting duck to a booming and zooming 109.

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Err what fanboyism... just telling it how I see it. A spit is slower than it should be but it still can turn much better than a 109 from what I have read is ridiculous, sure the spit is the better turner but not THAT much better...

Sry to say but SPit MkI or Mk II wasnt slowier then 109 E it was rather opposite. With 100 Octan fuel it was faster at low alts then 109. 109 had litlle adventage in higher alts.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by ReconNZ

Mate, turning is irrelevant - if you can climb better and fly faster, then you shouldnt ever get tagged. The 109 is far superior in almost any way. The turning difference is most likely due to the fact that the 109 is always going so much faster, so it seems like the spit turns better - truth is the slower object will always have the tighter turning circle - the difference you speak of is caused because the 109 is so much quicker!

Again, from my direct hands-on experience this is not true. In a sustained turn the Spit IIa catches the 109 in a couple of 360's. Give the 109 a try and you will see, I really advise you to try it.
Another strange advantage of the Spit is the unrealistic roll rate at high speed, I was really surprised by this. In barrel rolls this was lethal for my poor 109 opponent ... LOL!

On speed: I followed a 109 hurrying for his life at low alt, and I was slowly gaining on him, but what made me slow down was the fear of damaging the engine, which in the 109 never happens. In the Spit you risk to blow the governor and engine in few minutes if you push it to the extreme for too longtime. That a disadvantage.

Cheers!

Cheers!

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Again, from my direct hands-on experience this is not true. In a sustained turn the Spit IIa catches the 109 in a couple of 360's. Give the 109 a try and you will see, I really advise you to try it.
Another strange advantage of the Spit is the unrealistic roll rate at high speed, I was really surprised by this. In barrel rolls this was lethal for my poor 109 opponent ... LOL!

On speed: I followed a 109 hurrying for his life at low alt, and I was slowly gaining on him, but what made me slow down was the fear of damaging the engine, which in the 109 never happens. In the Spit you risk to blow the governor and engine in few minutes if you push it to the extreme for too longtime. That a disadvantage.

Cheers!

Cheers!

Thanks for clearing that up Insuber by the way your luftwhiner

So basically the red guys want there UFO spit back LMAO!

[Winger]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Well the spits can sure keep up with my E4 and they still can turn like a biplane so I am going to call BS on this.

This is called height advantage you would be able to do exactly the same thing to him if you had more height than him .

+1

All in all the 109 is totally inferior to the IIa with the exception of slightly higher topspeed. Make the IIa faster and we have the same BS we had when fighting 109 against a IIa before the patch.

Winger

[senseispcc]

*
I think if one or the other was so superior to the other the results (scores in real live) should have let us seen a real margin in favour of one or the other and it did not. This 3 planes Spitfire, Hurricane and BF109 where very close and each had is qualities and if the pilots how flew them could use them the pilots where the victor of their encounters. Most important than the machines are the men inside them. During WW2 if the planes had performances not to far away from each other the numbers of planes and numbers but also the quality (training) of pilots did the rest. In 1940 the RAF pilots had in the beginning a little disadvantage in numbers and training but the fighter command did close that gap. The Nazis never did invade the UK! This is history and you may put many if in it you cannot change this.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by ReconNZ

Mate I disagree, sure a good spit pilot can beat a poor 109er, but two good pilots, the 109 will dominate every time. All the 109 needs to do is boom and zoom and let their cannons get 1-shot 1 kills as they most often do. The spit is a sitting duck to a booming and zooming 109.

You are right. But this holds true for any plane: B&Z means that one has an alt advantage and keeps it with clever maneuvering, while the lower plane can't build up his E because he must dodge the slashing dives by turning tight.
When I did so against a Spit II I found that my 109 used to bleed E more quickly, and the Spit succeeded sometimes to build up enough E to oblige me to leave the field. The Spit II is a very tough opponent, and you have chances only when:

1. lots of E more + some good initial shots on controls
2. surprise attacks from his 6, only if he has the closed canpy and low sounds volume

But that's my opinion mate!

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Sry to say but SPit MkI or Mk II wasnt slowier then 109 E it was rather opposite. With 100 Octan fuel it was faster at low alts then 109. 109 had litlle adventage in higher alts.

Okay that's it you have had your 100 octane discussion it is time for the blue to have there own magical fuel.

If the red get 100 octane then the blues should get the E4/N and 100 octane aka the C-2 fuel.

Happy now

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

Thanks for clearing that up Insuber by the way your luftwhiner

So basically the red guys want there UFO spit back LMAO!

I think guys like you split people for red or blue ones and i understand that you never will be objective like every fanboy of his toy. Such people only make not nessesery mess here.

Im glad that i like to fly all these birds no metter of side. But im know that im in huge minoriy.

Sure i will be happy with E-4/N too even it was very rare plane in BOB and it doesnt change too much in low level speed for 109 but mostly at higher alts if you know

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

I think guys like you split people for red or blue ones and i understand that you never will be objective like every fanboy of his toy. Such people only make not nessesery mess here.

Im glad that i like to fly all these birds no metter of side. But im know that im in huge minoriy.

Err i fly both sides, I want realistic FM's so don't try and label me with your own tar fanboy.

Lets repeat that I FLY BOTH RED AND BLUE I LOVE BOTH THE SPIT AND 109, AT PRESENT I JUST HAPPEN TO FLY BLUE.