Speed graphs for Spitfire and Hurricane

[Osprey]

A useful post Banks but again referring to 6.25lbs boost (87 octane) in the rhetoric. As you know, 12lbs was available according to operating limits on the engine, this puts the Spitfire faster on the deck than the 109, not the 50kmph slower we are seeing here. That said, these graphs do plot the 12lbs boost speeds and it is these that require modelling, once cleared by the likes of those who 1C has an ear for.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

For comparison, the actual flight test (note the two lines, the bold one is the speed measured with the engine slightly down on power by about 50-60 PS, the thinner line is the measured performance re-calculated for nominal engine output guaranteed by engine manufacturer)

This has been achieved with 1.33/1.35 ata, which is our firewalled throttle setting in the game, without resorting to the 1-min WEP.

Would you say that with the data from that flight test that ~500 kmh could be achieved on the deck for a longer period of time in the BF109E without risking overheating ( which would happen only with emergency power of the 1-min WEP? ). And is there a graph which shows us the maximum speed when the BF109E is using the 1-min WEP?

It seems the devs think that ~500 kmh on the deck ( 0m ) can only be achieved with use of this 1 min WEP, which is not what your German Data speed graph lets us believe, Kurfurst's 1.33/1.35 ATA versus 1C's WEP 1.4 ATA to achieve 500. Quite a difference in terms of aircraft modelling.

One last thing, is this also a 'firewalled throttle without WEP' graph?



About the new Spitfire speed data, I don't want to see the SpitII replacing the Spit I on the servers, this should not be the solution. Dev team should look at 100 Octane SpitI speed figures which confirms that both the BF109E and SpitfireIa, if correctly modeled, are very close in terms of speed.

[Flanker35M]

S!

So the +12lbs boosted performance made Spitfire faster on the deck. What was the speed without the boost then? 5 minutes maximum is not a long time nor is the 1min or so for Bf109E.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

Thank you klem. This is so far the best post in this thread.

Banks, could you see PM please? Thx.

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

So the +12lbs boosted performance made Spitfire faster on the deck. What was the speed without the boost then? 5 minutes maximum is not a long time nor is the 1min or so for Bf109E.

Flanker 1.4 Ata is 1 minut short emergency power and 1.3 Ata for 109 E is also only 5 minut emergency power. Nominal ( continous 30-minut) power is 1.23 Ata for DB601.

For Spitfire MK I maximum speed at nominal power - 6 1/2 lbs is 283-288 mph/455-463 kph ( everything is on charts poseted in these topic)

" The A.&A.E.E. trials of N.3171 resulted in level speeds of 283 mph at sea level and 354 mph at 18,900 feet with the Merlin engine operating at 6.25 lbs/sq.in., 3000 rpm. 1d For comparison, Spitfire Mk. I R.6774 equipped with de Haviland Constant Speed Airscrew and armoured windscreen achieved 288 mph at sea level and 355 mph at 17,800 using 6.25 lbs/sq.in., 3000 rpm. The similarly equipped Spitfire I R.6770, except fitted with 2 cannons and four Browning guns, reached 358 mph at 18,000 ft. The Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) obtained 314 mph at sea level and 359 mph at a full throttle height of 11,500 feet using +12 lbs/sq.in. boost"

[Flanker35M]

S!

Got it Kwiatek So looks like these planes were quite close match even with +12lbs enabled for the Spits and Hurricanes.

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!
So the +12lbs boosted performance made Spitfire faster on the deck. .

Yeah, and up to around 12 or 15,0000ft. And yes, only for a limited time.. enough time.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by klem

BlackSix

This page gives sea level to 29,000 feet figures for the Spitfire with Merlin III @ 6.25lbs boost:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html
and this gives it for the Hurricane:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...rricane-I.html

I've placed your Patch Data on top of these and projected the sea level speeds (see attached) and both are looking too slow from sea level to 20k and 16k respectively. At sea level the Spitfire is looking to be 255mph instead of 283mph (28mph slow) and the Hurricane 240mph instead of 262mph (22mph slow).

Can you please confirm that the patch FM is still being adjusted to RL data (or that it will be)?

Yeah I did it by hand yesterday on top of the Kwiatek charts of the Hurricane, and wrote here the same ... Hurricane is penalized below 3000 m ... again, provided that the historical test data is reliable.

Cheers,
Ins

[Buchon]

This whole thing of Reds and Blues and the sides are getting my nerves

I´m a happy camper single-player of awesome historical custom missions made by the community mostly.

I don't care about Reds and Blues as I don't play online but I care about historical accuracy.

The B6 Spitfire graph (for example) is showing a really accurate performance line, Knowing a few things as the problems of the FM at high altitudes, the boost is not modeled well into the game (but will be later), and that it´s 87 octanes (obviously).

That´s pretty good results.

In fact is the most accurate performance line in-game now, because there planes with real problems there, the 109 performance line is a roller coaster compared to this for example.

But you guys are arguing and twisting this over for Red or blue sake ? really ?

Also ... conspiracy theory ? really ??!!

Get a grip for everyone's sake pls.


This is a really good post, providing performance data for historical sake, watch and learn :

Originally Posted by klem

BlackSix

This page gives sea level to 29,000 feet figures for the Spitfire with Merlin III @ 6.25lbs boost:
http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html
and this gives it for the Hurricane:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...rricane-I.html

I've placed your Patch Data on top of these and projected the sea level speeds (see attached) and both are looking too slow from sea level to 20k and 16k respectively. At sea level the Spitfire is looking to be 255mph instead of 283mph (28mph slow) and the Hurricane 240mph instead of 262mph (22mph slow).

Can you please confirm that the patch FM is still being adjusted to RL data (or that it will be)?

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Yeah I did it by hand yesterday on top of the Kwiatek charts of the Hurricane, and wrote here the same ... Hurricane is penalized below 3000 m ... again, provided that the historical test data is reliable.

Cheers,
Ins

This seems to be a common characteristic of the upcoming FM: Speeds at low altitudes are lower than the reference values.
The Bf 109 can compensate it by unhistorical WEP. Let's hope they will look at the Bf 109 FM for the final patch, the drop above FTH is significant. Looking at the graphs of G.50 and Blenheim it seems to be possible to limit take-off boost to certain altitudes, why isn't that done for the Bf 109?