Target visibility

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

? Btw, I do edits as a matter of course. Expect them, they happen on almost all my posts within the first few minutes of posting.



I provided two examples above and this is yet another. At this point your rudeness has already been amply demonstrated. Yet you persist.

you included something after your original claim?? come now, do get a grip... try finding something before you made your claim

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

Oh and, have you found an example of my participating in such threads or even complaining about dots,

I never said "you" personally... I said the subject has come up before... and you complain of others' comprehension?

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

rather than just suggesting that people switch between fovs and YOU whining about my suggesting it?



As always, I am ready to listen.

reading, perhaps would be a better approach

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

What fov should I set my 22" CRT at 1m viewing distance to in order to have 1:1 presentation?

irrelevant, as now matter how far away from, or however close to your monitor you sit, the same FoV is going to be displayed

I desire to set my fov to create a window in front of me (the monitor) that will present objects at exactly, or as close as I can get it, the same size as I would see from a similar window in reality. My monitor only occupies about 23.5 degrees of my field of view, however.

[/QUOTE]


If you want that, then you'll need a simpit and a multi-monitor/ wrap around screen

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

To date I have been working on the assumption that I must set the 'field of view' of the game to equal the 'angle of view' that my monitor occupies in order to reach a realistic 1:1 presentation.

the 1:1 representation, you won't get without a simpit and multi-monitor/ wrap around screen.

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

If you have another methodology, please enlighten me on this. And don't just say '60 fov' unless you can explain how a monitor presenting a 60 degree field of view from a game occupies the same 60 degree angle of view on all monitor setups despite vastly different monitor sizes and viewing distances.

yes, look at from projection and not photography, which I have tried to get across before, yet for whatever reason you seem to not consider that (or at least there has been no comment)
With whatever size monitor the ratio of FoV projected image to screen will be the same.
ie the cockpit will take up just as much space on a small monitor as it will a large monitor, with the only difference being in pixel resolution and staircasing

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

I realise the specification of my problem may be quite complex, so if you'd like, I can draw a quick picture to demonstrate my reasoning.

Draw away, I would be genuinely interested

[irR4tiOn4L]

Please answer the following question:



(In case this leads to confusion, the window on the right is a view from a real aircraft looking out, and its what I am trying to match on my monitor on the left.)

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

If you want that, then you'll need a simpit and a multi-monitor/ wrap around screen

the 1:1 representation, you won't get without a simpit and multi-monitor/ wrap around screen.

Why can I achieve a 1:1 representation with multiple monitors - by presumably stacking them until they make up 70 degrees of my 180 degree field of view, but cannot achieve the same thing with 1 monitor by reducing the ingame field of view?

[Wolf_Rider]

Here you go...

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Here you go...

What is the answer in degrees.

It is no mistake to say both the window and monitor occupy 23.5 degrees of my field of view.

In fact, it is the specification for the question. The monitor and window are of the same size and distance from the viewer. They occupy the same portion of the viewer's viewing angle. This portion is 23.5 degrees out of the viewer's 180 degree field of view. You must answer with that in mind.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

What is the answer in degrees.

It is no mistake to say both the window and monitor occupy 23.5 degrees of my field of view.

That is where you are continuing to look at it incorrectly... the monitors sits within your (human eye) range of vision, which is approx 180 (actually a tiny bit les, but 180 for round numbers). It is a projection screen, that is all it is

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

That is where you are continuing to look at it incorrectly... the monitors sits within your (human eye) range of vision, which is approx 180 (actually a tiny bit les, but 180 for round numbers). It is a projection screen, that is all it is

So does the window. It is just as large and sits just as far from me as the monitor. For our purposes it might as well be a projection screen also. So if I want to see the same thing on the monitor as I would see out the window, what is the required FOV setting ingame?

Come on, its a numerical and rather simple answer. I won't necessarily want to play the game like that, just like I wouldn't want to fly a plane out of a 22" window a metre or so in front of me, but there IS an answer.

In fact, all you need to do is look at the answer you gave me and the lines you drew for 90, 70 and 30 fov there - then compare them to fov lines you could draw out the aircraft window - to know the answer.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

So does the window. It is just as large and sits just as far from me as the monitor. For our purposes it might as well be a projection screen also. So if I want to see the same thing on the monitor as I would see out the window, what is the required FOV setting ingame?

Come on, its a numerical and rather simple answer. I won't necessarily want to play the game like that, just like I wouldn't want to fly a plane out of a 22" window a metre or so in front of me, but there IS an answer.

In fact, all you need to do is look at the answer you gave me and the lines you drew for 90, 70 and 30 fov there - then compare them to fov lines you could draw out the aircraft window - to know the answer.

It doesn't work that way on a projection though, which is the part I feel your not grasping... because, for one, the screen doesn't take into account binocular (two eye vision). If it did, and when you focused your eyes on a target plane very close to you, the background would blur/ double over depending on how far away what was behind what you focused on and then again behind that.
and you 3rd paragraph relates to two differnt scenarios. Why? because one is proejection and the other is real world

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

It doesn't work that way on a projection though, which is the part I feel your not grasping... because, for one, the screen doesn't take into account binocular (two eye vision). If it did, and when you focused your eyes on a target plane very close to you, the background would blur/ double over depending on how far away what was behind what you focused on and then again behind that.
and you 3rd paragraph relates to two differnt scenarios. Why? because one is proejection and the other is real world

This is all irrelevant. But who cares; heres the one eye open version.

Solve for result in degrees. Remember, no stereoscopic vision with one eye

And in case you object about being able to see to infinity, lets say both the monitor AND window has a Fresnel lens in front of it (look it up if you dont know what the result of that is)

Do you at least know what answer I am getting at? Can you at least name the answer that is in my mind, in degrees?

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

This is all irrelevant. But who cares; heres the one eye open version.

Solve for result in degrees. Remember, no binocular vision with one eye

And in case you object about being able to see to infinity, lets say the monitor has a Fresnel lens in front of it (look it up if you dont know what the result of that is)

No, its not irrelevant. two eyed vision does make it easier to spot movement at distance (and yes, there have threads on bi-ocular vision being introduced come up before)

same result as your previous picture

monitors don't have Fresnel lenses though, as standard, and as far seeing to infinity goes... yes the eye can see a fair way out but detail of objects aren't seen to infinity and those which are on their way there, in moving away, slowly fade to grey.


*EDIT (for your late entry

IF I sit at the window, I see up to 180 degrees... but a monitor isn't a real world window, where how much can seen is determined by how near or distant the person looking out it is and if I have a big big window, I can see much much more without having to be so close, such is the real world. Unfortunately though, a monitor won't display these qualities. Why? because it is no more than a projection surface

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

No, its not irrelevant. two eyed vision does make it easier to spot movement at distance (and yes, there have threads on bi-ocular vision being introduced come up before)

same result as your previous picture

monitors don't have Fresnel lenses though, as standard, and as far seeing to infinity goes... yes the eye can see a fair way out but detail of objects aren't seen to infinity and those which are on their way there, in moving away, slowly fade to grey.

That result being, in degrees?

Are you saying that the FOV I need to set ingame differs based on whether or not I have a fresnel lens in front of my monitor?

And anyway, surely you can at least tell me what answer I am thinking of?