luthier, the historical performance btw 109/spitfire/huricane is NOT simulated in CoD

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

I ment it rather as a joke. But you got to get the British credit for their stoic determination, stubborn resistance... and guts. And for how they didn't allow the bloody Luftwaffe to win the battle.

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...

Oh so what was that dude's name. I'd like to thank him personally for losing the war for Germans. Thank you very much, Helmut, danke vielmals!

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

Hmmm... historicaly inacurate assumption (pressumption)

Hadn't that stupid German bomber pilot dropped his bombs in the town (due to navigational error), thus causing the RAF bomber raid to Berlin, thus causing Hitler to order the bombardment of the British towns (instead of the industry and airfields), you would probably be speaking German as first language now...


And hadn't the Greeks kicked the Italian army thus obliging Hitler to invade Greece and have his airborne division massacred in the battle of Crete, probably the Russians would be speaking German, too...


irrespective how well the Spitfire turned (or didn't).

~S~

You seriously believe this? You are practically a sympathiser.....


For serious historians though please vote:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/174

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by zapatista

just came across this information on the 100 octane fuel issue some people had been raising for the spitfire and hurricane. seems this is more important in aircraft performance then i had previously thought.



and ........Wood and Dempster wrote in their book "The Narrow Margin":



source: http://www.spitfireperformance.com/spit1vrs109e.html

You've been calling people idiots left right and centre for the past few days and have only just learned about 100 octane and 12lbs boost. Oh dear......


Vote for it here
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/174

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Osprey

You seriously believe this? You are practically a sympathiser.....

WOW WOW WOW Baby!

Part of my family died in Crete defending my country against the nazis.

So you better wash your frigging brain, twice, before posting insults like that!

And read some more history and understand it instead of playing games, wondering how many octanes your Hurricane needs so that you do not get kicked.

~S~

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

[ATAG_Colander]

Originally Posted by zapatista

- 109's are like flying bricks of concrete and much more damage resistant

I can say the same thing about spits.

Originally Posted by zapatista

- 109's can out-turn, out-dive, and out-climb spitfire at any altitude

"out-turn" ? not on the CLoD version I have.


Anyway, in general, I think we all agree that changes are needed.

[Osprey]

Unlike you Grathos, I don't use the death of my relatives in WW2 in order to win arguments on the internet.

[335th_GRAthos]

I think you are a very fortunate person Osprey, to be able to hide behind the internet cloud in order to post attacks with apparent impunity

~S~

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

[Osprey]

So I'm a thicko and now a coward. Thanks.

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I meant it rather as a joke. But you got to get the British credit for their stoic determination, stubborn resistance... and guts. And for how they didn't allow the bloody Luftwaffe to win the battle.


Oh so what was that dude's name. I'd like to thank him personally for losing the war for Germans. Thank you very much, Helmut, danke vielmals!

Oh, I regret that Robo, I understood it rather as serious.

Regarding the dude's name, strangely enough history did not gave the blame for the bombing to Helmut. It was a whole squadron that dropped the bombs in the city of London due to a navigational error.
Although I get to understand your kind of humor in the meantime, I will bother to lecture you that it might be responsible to spend some moments to consider the:
18,629 men
16,201 women
5,028 children
695 charred bodies whose sex could not be unidentified
who died in England from German bombs during eight months of the Blitz (if you think it is rather funny to say "Danke vielmals!" to Helmut).

Oh, and maybe also the 593,000 German civilians who died from the bombing of Germany.

And since it is apparent that you are too cool to appreciate deaths of innocent people and too little interested about historical reality (besides octane fuel and flight performance of the Hurricane and Spitfire) you may be interested to know that RAF bombed Berlin three consecutive times before Hitler outraged ordered the destruction of English cities:


On the evening of 24 August 1940 the Luftwaffe, whilst targeting London's docks, also dropped bombs on the city's financial heart and Oxford Street in the West End. This was probably not intentional, as it was in defiance of Hitler's strict instructions that central London should not be attacked.
Winston Churchill was outraged and, 24 hours later, RAF Bomber Command retaliated.
On 25 August 1940, the RAF launched its first raid on Berlin.
A second British bombing raid on the night of August 28/29 1940
Two nights later, a third attack occurred.

Subsequently, on September 4, Hitler threatened, "...When the British Air Force drops two or three or four thousand kilograms of bombs, then we will in one night drop 150-, 230-, 300- or 400,000 kilograms. When they declare that they will increase their attacks on our cities, then we will raze their cities to the ground. We will stop the handiwork of those night air pirates, so help us God!"
(Sarcastic note: It is amazing in what kind of messup God finds himself regularly into, from the massacres of the Mayas and the populations of Latin and Central America to the WWI, WWII attrocities and it goes on...)

Beginning on September 7, 1940, and for a total of 57 consecutive nights, London was bombed.
The decision to wage a massive bombing campaign against London and other English cities would prove to be one of the most fateful of the war. Up to that point, the Luftwaffe had targeted Royal Air Force airfields and support installations and had nearly destroyed the entire British air defense system. Switching to an all-out attack on British cities gave RAF Fighter Command a desperately needed break and the opportunity to rebuild damaged airfields, train new pilots and repair aircraft. "It was," Churchill later wrote, "therefore with a sense of relief that Fighter Command felt the German attack turn on to London..."


Anyway, enough about history, I know most people here are looking for fun and enjoyment but sometimes I am appalled by the lightness people consider things which only happened seventy years ago.

~S~

[zapatista]

an interesting factual post on this topic from another thread, placing it here to keep some of this information centralized, rather then it getting lost at the end of a long unrelated thread.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

In Cliffs of Dover the top speed of the Spitfire Mark I and Ia is 240 mph at sea level. (Overboost Control Cut Out yields 0.25 lbs increase in boost 6.25 ---> 6.5 and no measureable increase in engine performance in this sim). The actual speed of the Mark I and Ia Spitfires was 280 mph at 6.25 lbs and 305 mph at 12 lbs. This compares to 273 mph (sea level) of the 109's in this sim. And yes, the 109's are also undermodelled in this sim, just to a lesser degree than the Spitfire Mark I's.

Red pilots are apparently already flying clapped-out Spits, so yes, a functioning 12 lbs boost would be a realistic thing to have in this sim ...

Originally Posted by Sturm_Williger Sturm_Williger

Wouldn't getting the base speed fixed be more important than getting 12lb boost added to game ?
Otherwise you may end up getting "normal" speed only by using boost = still not realistic.

ie.
a) top speed problem is a bug.
b) lack of 12lb boost is separate modelling issue.
Getting (a) fixed is (theoretically) easier for the devs than modelling 12lb boost and should be prioritised over (b), don't you think ? Or at least the 2 issues should be kept separate.