To All You COOP LOVERS!!!

[SlipBall]

Locked I'm sure once it starts...plus you may need to be in a squad

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

[furbs]

Something else...

COOP's other real strength is for training, say you have 8 guys from your squad and you want to practice something for a couple of hours, say dogfighting as a flight, with a COOP you can make a 4 vs 4 mission.

You can all start all at the same time at 12k ft, in formation with a 2 min flight time to intercept.
You have your dogfight and when it ends you can stop the mission, swap sides or what ever and be ready to go again in 1 min, or try something else.

Now it could be other missions, bombing in Stukas, bomber intercept, ship bombing, airfield attack with one side scrambling.
All this can be done with 5 mins flight time to target.

You get 10 training missions in 2 hours, you cant do this on a DFS.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by robtek

I really don't understand why this falseness of "dogfight-servers" is still posted again and again.

Must be cases of learning resistance.

The "dogfight-server" doesn't exist anymore!!!

The CoD online-server is the old "dogfight-server" and "coop-server" combined, only missing the gui, but not the abilities.

I understand Robtek. I do, they are just not ready for a brave new world

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

once COOP starts mission is locked.

p.s it can be player VS player VS AI

Man I don't know if I like that idea. But I understand how squads would like it and desire it. I totally can see that. But we can only be as real as what it is.

I tend to do work from home sometimes and I literally have to make time for this and I do. I'd be very turned off if I opened a beer and settled my butt into my chair and tried to get in some airtime only to find out the server is locked.

But this is where I part ways with the whole idea of coops. I'm not against the game having it. I just want to be able to sleep late and join up when I am ready and not when others are. I'm kinda lazy.

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by furbs

Something else...

COOP's other real strength is for training, say you have 8 guys from your squad and you want to practice something for a couple of hours, say dogfighting as a flight, with a COOP you can make a 4 vs 4 mission.

You can all start all at the same time at 12k ft, in formation with a 2 min flight time to intercept.
You have your dogfight and when it ends you can stop the mission, swap sides or what ever and be ready to go again in 1 min, or try something else.

Now it could be other missions, bombing in Stukas, bomber intercept, ship bombing, airfield attack with one side scrambling.
All this can be done with 5 mins flight time to target.

You get 10 training missions in 2 hours, you cant do this on a DFS.

Maybe its just a personal preference but I really love ground starts and all that. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant about start at the same time and at 15k. But I RESPECT your desires to have coops please do NOT think I don't.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

No no no no please don't misunderstand me. This sounds cool to me it does sounds like fun. But I just want to know is there a condition where you have to all start at the same time and is the mission locked? I mean you cannot join if its already in progress? And if it isn't locked can I do whatever I want?

P.S. Ok so I finally connect the dots and DFS is dog fight server. So I think I am understanding you more. I just want an answer to my questions above.

COOP's are locked, they had up to 16 vs 16 pilots plus other AI flights.

Think of a COOP as a set piece battle between 2 squads plus AI.
Or think of all the pilots on ATAG starting at the same time and flying a sortie as squadrons together.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

Maybe its just a personal preference but I really love ground starts and all that. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant about start at the same time and at 15k. But I RESPECT your desires to have coops please do NOT think I don't.

COOP's can have ground starts, all VEF missions did. I was saying air starts for training to save 20 mins getting your guys up to height or to target.

Its about choice, some people really like DFS, some like COOP's, most like both.

I like both.

[JG53_Valantine]

Doc,

The main thing for Co-ops is taht it sets everything up and starts everyone at the same time: not great for ATAG as ATAG is a dogfight server: even if it has missions / objectives and teamwork it is still an old IL2 styled Dogfight server game-mode wise. (admittedly with AI spawns etc. although modded IL2 46 had this with the Moving Dogfight Server stuff)

Co-Ops on the other hand are missions where X number of pilots join the mission at the same time: select their aircraft, loadouts and read the breifing before the host then hits "start" everyone is started where they aircraft they selected was palced: be it in the air or on the ground. This is a CO-OP server and can be either human vs human or human vs AI or a mixture of both on each side. They are extremely useful for Co-Op squads and were a very popular part of the old IL2 mix that is sorely lacking in CloD. Both Dogfight servers and Co-op servers have their advantages and disadvantages, however to not have that option is really a reversal of many years of progress in lots of people's eyes.

Sometimes you WANT everyone to be in the mission and "starting" at the same time, exactly where you placed their aircraft: these tend to be pre-organised things either on a squad level, online war level or even just a historical scenario (Take the 633 mossie mission that ran on hyperlobby frequently: NOW THAT was great fun and a fully co-operative experience that simply wouldn't work on the dogfight map) - Dogfight maps are great for those who want to jump on when they can: be it for a bit of "air-quake fly/gun/die/rinse & repeat stuff" or for an objective based "mission" but very poor for other things like a co-ordinated start, historical missions, co-op squadrons etc.

Sure: keep the dogfight server in CloD the way it is (as in IL2 46 MDS Moving Dogfight Server) but give us a proper Co-Op interface as well: it's not as if we are asking for all online experiences to be Co-Op only - we just want the option we used to have without spending hours messing around with scripting before we can even get missions in - time is limited for lots of us as it is.

So adding Co-Ops isn't "a step abckwards" in any shape or form: it is just giving us more options for us to enjoy the online experience.
V

Doc,

to add in: it really may help if you pick up a copy of IL2 46 and just spend an hour or two playing about with the co-op mode and you'll understand it. Trying to explain it is a little like trying to explain how the combustion engine works to an uncontacted tribesman: no matter how much you say it's like, or it does it is doubtful they will get the full picture.
V

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by furbs

COOP's are locked, they had up to 16 vs 16 pilots plus other AI flights.

Think of a COOP as a set piece battle between 2 squads plus AI.
Or think of all the pilots on ATAG starting at the same time and flying a sortie as squadrons together.

Ok I am clear. And I understand.

I hope you get what you want.

But I hope I don't ever try to log on and get met with a message that its in mission. lol