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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #241  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:24 PM
smurf-oly smurf-oly is offline
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Originally Posted by adonys View Post
And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.
Just curious... how is the "free camera" view accessed?
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  #242  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Sutts Sutts is offline
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Originally Posted by adonys View Post
aaa.. what objects visible for miles around? You're not talking about IL2Cod, are you? because, actually in IL2CoD those objects you are mentioning are NOT there, unless you are within a mile or so from them. Go at 3k, and look down from above those huge radar antenas for example.. and.. you won't see them!

In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Then do the same from your airplane, but without any cockpit (to not have the FPS influenced by rendering the cockpit), and write down FPS again. Spawn an AI in your flight, and fly with him, and again note the FPS with your flight mate in view, and not in view.

Then compare them all, and you might be surprised

A lot of the "complex" calculation of which you are talking about in IL2, are not actually there. many actually happen only when triggered (like when pressing the fire button, or when bullets are actually hitting something).

And don't mistake a big number of computations needed to be done with a complex computation system. those are different things.

I think you would understand better all of this if you try to find out a game engine development book, and try to read it.

As it is, you really don't know what's this about, not even the ones of you which are programmers, but never worked as game programmers.

Well it goes without saying that much of the processing is restricted to objects that fall within the player's bubble but that bubble is a darn sight larger than in the games you refer to due to the nature of air combat.

Then think about the miles and miles of wooded areas you can see from thousands of feet up.

>>In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see >>EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

Well try flying over a town in CloD - I think you'll find you can see the whole damn town too - amazing.

But in these complex programs you talk about, what does the program have to do other than track a bunch of actors and simplified vehicles around town, keeping track of the latest garbage script that's been spoken?

If you take away the characters with their nice animations and the convincing environment (which is possible when you're only rendering a street), there's not much going on really.

And don't try to be a judge of me and my development experience.

I very much doubt you're a professional game programmer yourself, probably just a jumped up dabbler like most folk who bs like you.

Last edited by Sutts; 03-26-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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  #243  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:53 AM
tomandre81 tomandre81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adonys View Post
aaa.. what objects visible for miles around? You're not talking about IL2Cod, are you? because, actually in IL2CoD those objects you are mentioning are NOT there, unless you are within a mile or so from them. Go at 3k, and look down from above those huge radar antenas for example.. and.. you won't see them!

In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Then do the same from your airplane, but without any cockpit (to not have the FPS influenced by rendering the cockpit), and write down FPS again. Spawn an AI in your flight, and fly with him, and again note the FPS with your flight mate in view, and not in view.

Then compare them all, and you might be surprised

A lot of the "complex" calculation of which you are talking about in IL2, are not actually there. many actually happen only when triggered (like when pressing the fire button, or when bullets are actually hitting something).

And don't mistake a big number of computations needed to be done with a complex computation system. those are different things.

I think you would understand better all of this if you try to find out a game engine development book, and try to read it.

As it is, you really don't know what's this about, not even the ones of you which are programmers, but never worked as game programmers.
You just forget that AC have about 1/1000000 map of the size as the il2:COD has. Plus the physics calculation are taking up a lot of resources in il2:COD. And in AC you could not see people rendered so far away, just buildings + a loading screen once you wanted to go to a new place.
**** game too, repetetive, easy and scripted. Most boring assassin game I have ever tried. Hitman bloodmoney is 10 x better. There you have freedom how to assassin your target

Last edited by JG52Uther; 03-27-2012 at 05:31 AM. Reason: swearing
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  #244  
Old 03-27-2012, 05:17 AM
Timberwolf Timberwolf is offline
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Have to say in the past i wasn't a big IL-2 fan i use to play a other ww2 fighter online game till its closing The grafix's were no where near IL-2's But the eazy to start and go and dogfight was what kept me coming back .. the idea of buttons engine warm ups etc and huge map with small numbers of players isn't ideal for me ..I first started playing this game lost .. having tried setting my joystick to a airplane that was bouncing up and down on take off and downloading a PDF file on how to use the controls seems between the lag and freezes and jumping and the unstable controls and lack of 5 hours to set up everything I found my self my own game programmer then a dogfighter then white knuckes and a big grin

That was in april of 2011 when most in North America never had the game
I didn't mind the Bugs etc But to find out you need to find hidden switches outside the plane or behind this Or no clue on how to use diffrent ammo settings ..add this and that and hearing a new update was coming on grafix fix and bug fix Or finding my airspeed in a spitfire was matched by a JU 87 had me a loss. WAY too much to this SIM to just have a good old dogfight

Just wasn't worth it for me . I cut my lost and after upgrading my Motherboard never bothered to reinstall COD back 5 months ago
I see the not much has changed other then new Dogfighting games online coming out and a few sorry's from luther ..I'm not really here to bash or point I just think "for me" This game could of been a basic great looking game with less cream filling sim ..i sorta laughed at the time there was lots of bugs but we got new lights in the houses
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  #245  
Old 03-27-2012, 07:26 AM
Covert_Death Covert_Death is offline
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the point of IL-2 has always been "a cream filled sim"

il-2 just isnt the right series for you if you want quick start dogfights...
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  #246  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:20 PM
XL5
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Hey guys, I think the real issue here is the fact that 1C decided to release
an "incomplete" game, and they knew it would be a fiasco....
Had they released it , for the first time (!) with the upcomming patch, we would not be having this discussion about code complexity, small tream, big team, optimized or not , big budget or small budget...It is irrelevant , because if any
project is released and sold as a final product but is plegged with bugs and doesn't not play well enough for the majority, will be exposed to the same critisms as CLOD...whatever the budget and resources....
Why did they released it a year before completion knowing it would be a marketing catastrophe ? That is the real question IMHO....
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  #247  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:44 PM
Volksieg Volksieg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Covert_Death View Post
the point of IL-2 has always been "a cream filled sim"

il-2 just isnt the right series for you if you want quick start dogfights...
Hear! Hear! I am an absolutely atrocious dogfighter (Though practice makes perfect!)... the sheer satisfaction of keeping my 109 up in the air without trashing the engine is joy enough! That is why I keep coming back to this sim and haven't touched my copy of "Wings of Prey" since.
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  #248  
Old 03-27-2012, 03:46 PM
HessleReich HessleReich is offline
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There are always going to be people that dont get on with Sims, My experience with Il2 series has always been golden, true i have had to spend many hours setting the game up and getting all my controls worked out... I even had to wait a year almost till i had a more respectable system to run it on.

Compared to some of the competitors such as the dcs series (which i love) Il2 CLoD has actually been one of the easiest to get to grips with from a cold start. I was playing MP Coop With a friend whithin 24 hours and actually shooting stuff down AND having super awesome dogfights (the trick is to have lots of enemies and they seam to attack the player more).

Yes it may be broken in places but there is usually a reason or fix and you work around it... well some of us do, I had ctd issue loads and loads... Had to test 10 diff gfx settings (changed to DX9). and you know what havent had one in 2 weeks.

Anyways i wanted to say it is an awesome sim and d*** the producers for pushing it out and putting the devs in this situation. Dont release anything till its ready.
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  #249  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:13 PM
Flanker35M Flanker35M is offline
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S!

If you remember those old updates before IL2 CoD was released and Oleg was still in the team h said that IL-2 COD does NOT use complex computations for AI or anything else outside a range from player AC. What the range is hard to tell, but sometimes when you approach a formation there is a slight stutter which COULD possily indicate more complex things taken in account. But this is only my guess as Oleg's message was that the calculations for objects outside vicinity of player were barely calculate if at all.
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  #250  
Old 03-27-2012, 05:04 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XL5 View Post
Hey guys, I think the real issue here is the fact that 1C decided to release
an "incomplete" game, and they knew it would be a fiasco....
Had they released it , for the first time (!) with the upcomming patch, we would not be having this discussion about code complexity, small tream, big team, optimized or not , big budget or small budget...It is irrelevant , because if any
project is released and sold as a final product but is plegged with bugs and doesn't not play well enough for the majority, will be exposed to the same critisms as CLOD...whatever the budget and resources....
Why did they released it a year before completion knowing it would be a marketing catastrophe ? That is the real question IMHO....
The answer to that question is the easiest by far. The investors were no longer willing to keep funding the project. If they hadn't released what was done, to that point, the development would have shut down. Which would you rather have an unfinished sim with a decent chance it will be finished, or no sim at all. Luckily the developers past reputation for delivering a quality product spurred enough sales to give investors the confidence to continue supporting the sim.
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