Bomber boys - bbc one

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

The 7500 members of the Bomber Command Association (ex RAF aircrew) raised the money themselves to erect a statue to their chief.

apparently it was the "Bomber Harris Trust". I think it talks for itself, defending the indefensible..

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Better than you i'd wager.

I'm no general, and unlike you I keep national pride and military history well separated, but anyway I'm sure you heard of Market-Garden..

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I'm no general, and unlike you I keep national pride and military history well separated, but anyway I'm sure you heard of Market-Garden..

Also heard of El Alemain. National pride has nothing to do with it.

Not going to dispute market garden was a failure because in patently was, but not going to conveniently ignore what came before as you have subjectively done yet again with your wealth of knowledge on military history.

No general is perfect, Rommel whoever, all have successes and failures, given enough time in command.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

apparently it was the "Bomber Harris Trust". I think it talks for itself, defending the indefensible..

The Bomber Harris trust, were as Arthur said, ex RAF airman from bomber command, that is fact, whatever your personal views or mine are on it.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Also heard of El Alemain. National pride has nothing to do with it.

Not going to dispute market garden was a failure because in patently was, but not going to conveniently ignore what came before as you have subjectively done yet again with your wealth of knowledge on military history.

No general is perfect, Rommel whoever, all have successes and failures, given enough time in command.

well... El-Alamein was his victory, but an easy one, considering he was running against an exhausted and over-stretched Afrikakorps and Italian Army, both without supplies and significant air support by the end of the North African campaign, and fighting against an enemy who had bigger numbers in terms of troops and logistic support. Everything else after that was a total failure (Sicily/Anzio landings, D-Day/Caen, Market-Garden).

Perfection doesn't belong to human being, let alone Generals, but the balance between success and failure makes the difference between the legendary good and bad ones.. and remaining on the WW2 theme, I'm sure you heard about Patton.. that was a General.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

The Bomber Harris trust, were as Arthur said, ex RAF airman from bomber command, that is fact, whatever your personal views or mine are on it.

I'm not so sure about the numbers of this Bomber Harris trust, there isn't much info on it. I don't doubt it had a part of ex RAF airmen supporting it, but this doesn't mean that they are right or that their scope is a legit one.

You still have Nazi vets that support their wartime creed, but this doesn't make them right, does it?

Anyway, going back on topic, the whole argument was that as much as I accept and think it's fair to celebrate the bravery of RAF Bomber Command aircrews, I don't think Harris deserves all this celebration, if anything for his controversial and questionable tactics.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Anyway, going back on topic, the whole argument was that as much as I accept and think it's fair to celebrate the bravery of RAF Bomber Command aircrews, I don't think Harris deserves all this celebration, if anything for his controversial and questionable tactics.

Nor do i particularly, but you just assumed i did.

Best not to assume things you don't know, can make you look silly.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Nor do i particularly, but you just assumed i did.

Best not to assume things you don't know, can make you look silly.

erm, I didn't assume anything, I just stated again what my opinion on the OT?

[Hood]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

..well according to your theory we should have a statue for Himmler, since he did his job quite well too

it is a known fact that the area bombing idea was a bad idea, which cost not only innocent lives and RAF aircrews, but caused a lot of losses and great expenditures even after the war. It is also a fact that it's not because of area bombing that the war ended, it was just a tragic waste.

..I bet you're telling me next that Montgomery was a great general

You're just trolling with the Himmler comment so I won't rise to the bait.

You're also trolling with the Montgomery mention but for the record I do think that Montgomery was a great general.

I am not convinced it is a "known fact" that area bombing was a bad idea. There are arguments for and against. You're entitled to your opinion of course, as am I.

It is illuminating that the existing Harris memorial was paid for by those that he commanded. Maybe those that did the actual job had/have the right take on things.

[Hood]

Double post