Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY - For 4.11

[Bolelas]

One thing that get me a little mad is when i am online, and wont to change pilot(key assignments, HOTAS)and that is not possible. (probably ofline it is the same, i dont remenber). Imagine redefine all those keys! It would be nice. Eg: if we forgot the "bomber pilot" key assignement in, we would go to escape menu we are used to (were is refly etc), we would clic, change pilot to our fighter keys assignement (for example), and fine!

[Alien]

I'd love to have a flight construction like in CoD. But I think 40 aircraft is too much for an old sim. Maybe max number would be 16? I'd really LOVE to see this, it could make mission building MUCH easier and less time consuming.

[JG26_EZ]

Originally Posted by Alien

I'd love to have a flight construction like in CoD. But I think 40 aircraft is too much for an old sim. Maybe max number would be 16? I'd really LOVE to see this, it could make mission building MUCH easier and less time consuming.

I beg to differ Alien..
Though it may make mission building easier, the way that a flight attacks another flight might end up being really scary when the one flight of 16 Spitfire comes roaring in after me if I happen to be flying in < + - , no matter how many planes I have in my flight, they always seem to want to see the flight leader killed first.

If AI reacted differently, I'd raise a glass to your request and say here here.
At the moment, I'm finding flights of two is the way to go. I guess we'll see what happens in v4.11

[Alien]

But it's natural human behavior - everyone wants to kill the leader of the enemy flight. At least I do and I think everyone does. But you're right - it sometimes pisses someone off if he's the leader against many enemies

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Thats a false interpretation of the things happening. If you want, you can do a fight as a flightleader without being attacked at all. All you have to do is: avoid close contact, set your buddies to attack and DON'T SHOOT ever!

Its just simple. AI is quite dumb (still is), so if you - as the player - present the most activity by attacking, shooting, being the most dangerous guy in your mission sky, so each enemy AI, that you are going onto (even if you just pass behind him), is 'crying for help' from its flight members - means, the other enemy AI's. Now, if they are not too busy with fighting or defending with your buddies, they will for sure GO AFTER YOU! Its just logical.

In short - if you prove to be dangerous, you will have to live with the consequences.

[Alien]

OK, thanks, but what do you think about my request? Can it be done for 4.12 or not?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I really have no clue about that, i.e. what problems it might mean programming wise or how AI would behave, or how much calculation is too much for the game/PC. So I stand out of any oppinion.

[K_Freddie]

Originally Posted by Alien

But it's natural human behavior - everyone wants to kill the leader of the enemy flight. At least I do and I think everyone does. But you're right - it sometimes pisses someone off if he's the leader against many enemies

Not me.. I hammer the weaker ones first as it's quicker, leaving more time to deal with the leader. Start chasing the leader and you'll have the rest of the pack on your tail in no time, as it's harder to do the leader.

[HarryM]

I always just assumed it was because the leader is "physically" closer flying in the lead position to enemies coming at 12 o'clock so usually gets detected/targeted first.

[Pursuivant]

A whole gaggle of fighters latching onto a single opponent might be realistic, but it's also a rookie mistake. It's just stupid for a whole squadron of supposedly "veteran" or "ace" AI to be trailing along behind you in a stern chase.

If you've got the advantage of numbers on your side, you "box" the enemy by sending off pairs or sections to cut off his lines of retreat or to try to hit him with fire from multiple directions.

At the very least, if you're chasing an opponent you should send out a couple of sections in a line abreast so that there are more guns to bear should the enemy decide to turn.

While I'll reserve comment on AI behavior until I get the 4.11 patch, it seems to me that AI could be further improved by:

1) Having fighters target the lead bomber of a "box" (group formation), or lead bombers of each element of a "V".

Historically, this was important because the "command bomber" often decided when the rest of the formation would drop its bombs, and the "lead bombardier" aboard the command bomber was also likely to be the most experienced (hence, most accurate) bombardier in the group.

2) Have fighters cooperate when attacking enemies, rather than "every man for himself".

While it would be too much to ask for full-developed and historically accurate section, flight, squadron and group tactics, some attempt to split defensive fire with simultaneous attacks or to cut off an opponent's line of retreat would be easier to model.

3) Trying to better model historical doctrine, such as the reportedly low initiative and focus on formation keeping by early war Soviet pilots or British early war 3 plane fighter formations.

4) Make wingmen slightly smarter and have more options for your wingman.

Right now, wingmen slavishly follow their leader and almost never shoot unless an attacker makes the mistake of getting between the lead plane and the wingman and attacking the lead.

By contrast, if you tell them to "attack my target" they're in competition with you for the kill, and sometimes accidentally shoot you!

Wingmen also don't immediately report enemies on your tail, nor do they tell you what to do to get them off.

If asked, a good wingman could be ordered to get into a position to cut off an opponent's line of retreat or bring him under fire when he turns, in the classic "drag and bag" manuever.

He should also tell you to break right, left, up or down to avoid an incoming attack, and possibly even attempt to use a "drag and bag" himself.

Likewise, you should be able to order your wingman to take the lead, or act as "bait" so YOU can try a drag and bag:

Basic commands:

1) Break Right.
2) Break Left.
3) Keep steady (i.e. go straight).
4) Dive.
5) Climb.
6) Hold course (i.e., keep doing what you're doing).
7) Chop the throttle/try to get the enemy to overshoot.
Cut off - i.e., try to get a position 60-90 degrees off the enemy's current course so you can get a shot at them as they turn.