Poll!! Regarding old style Coop GUI

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

I think really, we can look at it like this.

A co-op in the Il-2 sense is basically a "mission". Once the mission is over, you don't want to keep playing. The whole design philosophy is different. Once you choose an aircraft you have an individual squadron or flight goal, and once you complete it, you are done and you can return to base unless you have other plans or interruptions. You fly one aircraft, and if you die, you are dead and it's tough, everyone else must fight on without you. It's interesting *because* of these limitations.

A dogfight in the Il-2 sense is a populated environment with no particularly strict or rigid mission structure or narrative or goal. It's just a "map". If you die you can hop into another aircraft whenever you want, or even into an aircraft in flight (depending upon settings). This is all we have at present in the GUI sense as there is no sense of "preparing for a mission" or "finishing a mission" - there is no decent briefing to speak of and no real debriefing or stats. There might be an overriding goal but because of the lack of detailed individual squadron briefing and aircraft choice and so on, most players will ignore it, and the map inevitably descends into furball chaos.

For that reason, the idea that co-op mode is now unnecessary is untrue. It's a completely different style of play with a completely different philosophy. To say that it's unrealistic because "in real life there was no co-op mode" is utter nonsense. In real life there was ALWAYS co-op mode. Military aircraft take off with a goal and a task to complete. This is clearly set out and timed and co-ordinated with other squadrons and groups. It isn't just "BLOW UP THE SHIPS SO RED WINS MAP LOL" either. The individual squadrons and groups' goals are distinct, and are planned to individually contribute toward achieving an overriding objective. These objectives are followed because they are the pilots' orders! You can't have that kind of organisation spontaneously, and that is where the current GUI falls down.

Dogfight mode is not a replacement for this because there is no organisation and no one to give orders, because if you don't agree with them or you have your own ideas, why would you follow them? You are not compelled in any way by the game structure or the scoring system or even other players to do so. Points and kudos are for blowing stuff up in dogfight mode, that's just how people think.

Did anyone who played IL-2 online for a long time ever consider MDS to be a complete replacement for co-op? I certainly didn't, and this is the same situation.

At last someone exactly and completely understands my thoughts and wishes probably others as well on this matter, especially the last paragraph.

Well played that man


Ok definitely out this time.


.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by TheGrunch

Aren't those two assertions completely contradictory? "If it was easy to do they would have done it but it's okay because it can be done in the internal scripting language by a random unpaid non-professional volunteer."

Not at all

By easy to do I mean include all of the old IL-2 FMB way of doing things into the new CoD FMB way of doing things

Where as Atrols noted the old IL-2 way consisted to TWO seperate types of missions DF or COOP

Where as Atrols noted the new CoD way consists of ONE type MISSIONS

While 1C was creating this new CoD way they found it either too hard to include a the old IL-2 COOP GUI/MENU/LIST

Or

1C realised it was not necessary to include a old IL-2 COOP GUI/MENU/LIST because they knew it could be done via the C# script methods

Where 1C made the mistake was giving the user too much credit for being intesested enough in COOPs to write the C# code to create the GUI\MENU\LIST

Well some users that is

[robtek]

Just to stay on the ground here, MG never intended to release the game in the state it is.

They had to release, and what is missing are the user friendly interfaces, as there wasn't time to develope them then, and now there are other pressing problems.

So the game can give us all the stuff requested here in the multiplayer mode as there won't be a coop-mode anymore.

As MG doesn't have the resources right now to produce this gui, we can either wait for MG to have the time or we can wait for a ingenious c# programmer to reverse engineer and write it.

Thats it.

[JG52Krupi]

Robtek no one said it should be done immediately we are all aware that they released an unfinished product due to reasons that we will probably never truly know but this is irrelevant to this thread we never said we want it tomorrow just that we want it, as long as they inform us that it will be done at some point I will happy.

[robtek]

It seems that if the next patch solves the big problems of the core engine there will be manpower available to get the lesser priority stuff done.

So lets wait for THE PATCH to the beginning of the end of all problems(game related).

[robtek]

The sequel IS this game!

[JG53Frankyboy]

at least if you buy the sequel and it will be mergeabel (highly possible IMO ) with CoD, one will get the engine and GUI improvements. If not, we have to see how they will support the CoD alone . And a BoM alone also , if it will work alone at all.

i cant imagine they want have the same like with PF , one X.XX and one X.XXm patch. perhaps if you will buy BoM, the CoD stuff will be included, so this sequel will be a restart of the series

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Seems there is a pattern developing here.

Yup.. the same patern 1C used with IL-2.. Where IL-2 recived like 4+ sequals over 10 years.. Where we had to pay for each sequal.. Where each sequal basically added to (upgraded) the previous version of IL-2

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

at least if you buy the sequel and it will be mergeabel (highly possible IMO ) with CoD, one will get the engine and GUI improvements. If not, we have to see how they will support the CoD alone . And a BoM alone also , if it will work alone at all.

From what I have read I did not get the impression that there would be two stand alone games.. CoD and the Sequal.. that will be able to interact with each other.. For example, be able to join an online game using either one of the two.. Or that the sequal would be an addon to CoD.

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

i cant imagine they want have the same like with PF , one X.XX and one X.XXm patch.

Actully that is the impression I got.. based off what was said and the 1C IL-2 track record.. Where each sequal basically replaces the previous version.. That is to say you could still play CoD with other CoD players, must like some people still play IL-2 PF.. Just most made the move to the new version (aka sequal)

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

perhaps if you will buy BoM, the CoD stuff will be included, so this sequel will be a restart of the series

That is the impression I got, and I hope that is what they do! Seems most likly based on the 1C IL-2 track record

[Untamo]

S! to Grunch for clearing up the thread.

My thoughts:
If you happen to know what SEOW coop is, then you know that the old Il-2 style coop MP GUI is a must.

If you don't know, I really recommend you look it up and get yourself or your squad into one. It's the closest you can get in feeling that you are a part of a really huge battle, where the air combat is just to support the land battle below. (Not meaning to belittle the air war of course )

The point:
Having 60+ players joining the server, getting squads briefed, selecting the correct planes can easily take an hour. Even with this GUI, there is lot's of logistics beyond that to get everyone on the server on time, with correct game version etc. If there was no coop GUI, I say the SEOW system just wouldn't be there. The coop GUI allows the organization of large amount of people to start a time critical mission at the same time.

And as said by others, it is also essential tool in squad training sessions for mentioned reasons.

Links to SEOW for anyone interested:
http://wiki-seow-en.swil.fr/index.php/Main_Page
http://www.seowhq.net/