109 advice needed (climb)

[reflected]

Just now I shot up a Hurricane head on, then I started climbing away (I had E advantage) . I trimmed my E-3 perfectly, 2400 RPM, full throttle, climbing at 300 kph. By the time we were over France the Hurricane got within firing distance and shot me down.

What was I doing wrong? I obviously made a mistake, because the Hurricane was notorious for being slow, and sluggish, like a grand-piano with a Merlin.

Thanks in advance.

[CWMV]

Welcome to the bogus 109 FM.
Hurri Rotol is a real threat to the 109's as is.

[_79_dev]

109's climb rate is best at around 250 km/h, depending of course on altitude. If You are trying to climb away from hurricane or spitfire You need to do it in stages, that will force their engines to cut out and stall eventually, but don't loose Your opponent at 6 o'clock he may be good enough to stay below You for a long time therefore I would rather use chandelle or just roll over and drop on him rather than trying to extend...

You don't do wrong, ref, the fm is wrong. That's all. I hope they fix it. Currently the Hurri is quite a good match to the 109 while the 109 should have a little edge over it. Or my history books are all wrong.

[ElAurens]

At 2400rpm and 3.5 to 4 pounds of boost the Rotol Hurricane can gently climb at 200mph. That is 20mph faster than you were doing in the 109. The Hurri cannot follow in a steep climb.

While I am strictly a Hurricane pilot, I do agree that the 109 is hobbled in speed, as is the Spitfire.

That said, against an aggressive and good 109 pilot, the Hurri has no chance if you stick to a strict boom and zoom tactic. The 109 can dive much faster and retain it's energy in the zoom out much better than the Hurri.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

You don't do wrong, ref, the fm is wrong. That's all. I hope they fix it. Currently the Hurri is quite a good match to the 109 while the 109 should have a little edge over it. Or my history books are all wrong.

You do something wrong if he catched you. 109 is a wee bit slower as it should be but still has got the edge in speed, dive, vertical. I am talking significant advantage in performance - 109 is certainly better in if used well, you will outfly, outclimb and outshoot any RAF figher on ATAG. Sure, the FMs needs to be fixed but the general characteristics between RAF and 109 is there. What is weird, Hurricane Mk.I is faster than Spitfire Mk.Ia (same engine, same prop) and climbs better. What ElAurens says, Rotol Hurricane can be dangerous and can outfly you if the jockey is good. If you don't mind, tell me who the pilot was...

So what was your mistake imho? You assumend the Hurri was useless, but it was not. It was quite capable fighter plane in RL and it is so ingame. He probably cut your turn as there is no way catching a 109 that decides to run away. There is no way he would outclimb you from Co-E state or overtake you. But if he flew smart, he could have come close enough. Also, have you been using WEP / Erhoehte Notleistung? (1.45ata)? If you had an E advantage, you should have used it instead of running away. It is also difficult to look back if he's still there, crawling on your six waiting for you to slow down...

I fly everything - 109s and Hurricanes or Spiftires, been on both sides

[jg27_mc]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

That said, against an aggressive and good 109 pilot, the Hurri has no chance if you stick to a strict boom and zoom tactic. The 109 can dive much faster and retain it's energy in the zoom out much better than the Hurri.

Got nothing more to add. Although I am not an Experten, if you stick to this rule of engagement you will be successfully against British fighters most of the times, specially cause they generally use poor tactics (don't want to flame the red side, but this is what I generally encounter while flying ATAG). Of course there are some brilliant flyers on the red side. I've been shoot down by Hurris and Spits with it's pilot's doing some of most amazing things I have seen in this simulation.

Originally Posted by Robo.

...Also, have you been using WEP / Erhoehte Notleistung? (1.45ata)? If you had an E advantage, you should have used it instead of running away...

This is equally important.

BTW, IMHO the most difficult thing to achieve while flying these German bricks is discipline.

Regards

[AKA_Tenn]

I just try to keep my 109 flying 430 kph, i climb out before i engage and always keep my energy, when you fly the 109 you gotta realize the british pilots want you to slow down, so you need to keep fast and high, since they can't touch you then, there's no rush to shoot them down, just take your time and wait for the right opportunity.... catch one stalled out trying to climb up to you, or catch one by itself... but never do things your enemy plane does better than yours... well in the 109's case its more like... only do the one thing your plane does well... and thats climb at high speeds... try not to climb at stall speeds, while the hurricane can't climb with you at those speeds, the spit will...

and the 109 has a really small power band... thats true, but its better to waste power than not use enough power when it comes to not wanting to get shot down... screw the environment

[SEE]

I love this sim but the FM...... Here's a quote from Adolf Galland taken from an interview with him regards the allied ac during the BoB.

"the Hurricane was hopeless, nice to shoot down though!"

But changes are afoot (I hope!) and spare a thought for those of us (in Spits) who are yelling ' throttle back - can't keep up with you!'

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by reflected

Just now I shot up a Hurricane head on, then I started climbing away (I had E advantage) . I trimmed my E-3 perfectly, 2400 RPM, full throttle, climbing at 300 kph. By the time we were over France the Hurricane got within firing distance and shot me down.

What was I doing wrong? I obviously made a mistake, because the Hurricane was notorious for being slow, and sluggish, like a grand-piano with a Merlin.

Thanks in advance.

At medium altitude and above (I'd say anywhere above 4000m) the Hurri climbs surprisingly well against a 109. If you want to do a sustained climb you should do what others have said and either climb very steeply at 250 km/h or very shallow at 400 km/h+.

Use emergency power ("afterburners" ) and don't be afraid to run the engine a little harder than 2400. At slow speeds, 2500 rpm won't cause you to overheat with rads open, and you get a little more climb out of it in my experience.