Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Crop-Duster

How would you feel if Russia put defensive missiles in Canada?

"I never Knew anything about the Russian war with Germany. It's just not discussed in the US, nor ever was."

There lies the problem^

Please do! If anyone read "Firefox down" where the Finns are depicted as being under the thumb of the Russian's and, certain portions of their population being willing to help the Americans as a result, the same thing is true of Canada. Some elements would welcome the bases just to be annoying, wouldn't we?

Anyway, it is true that there is great ignorance in the "West" with regard to the Russian contribution to winning World War Two and the unbelievable sacrifices made during the Great Patriotic War. I am glad to see this is changing.

It is also nice, that we can now talk, all of us around the world. Imagine 62' if we could chat person-to-person like this instead of leaving everything to the diplomats.

It is really nice to see the olive branches (especially when we disagree), that this thread started with.

It is interesting that the big arguments here are about things "inside of countries" instead of east vs. west? Its kind of like we "nations" are fighting battles for our own souls. If we can bring peace inside ourselves will we be able to be kinder and more rational in dealing with each other? I don't know. Hopefully 62' won't happen again though.

[Chivas]

Thanks for re-enforcing my point Nearmiss.

[Avala]

Nearmiss

Maybe war games played by both sides to sell the arms to the stupid ones. Stupid ones will buy arms from Americans to defend themselves from Russia, other stupid ones will buy arms to defend them selves from Americans, most stupider ones will of course buy arms to defend them selves from extremists. And everybody is happy, Joe will keep his work in the factory, Sergey will be again employed and have chocolate for his children, and Mohammed can happily continue to play his part, conscious of that part or not.

What can stop you from enjoy discussion and making friends with whom ever you want. Who can tell you what you can and with whom you are allowed to make friends? Why are your country have right to tell you what to think and what to tell? Why should you listen and align yourself with such nonsense? Who has legal right to indoctrinate you who are extremist in the world and who is so called good guy?

Why shouldn’t you think with your head instead watch television and news? You have seen now that Sergey and Joe are both great guys and very good friends, why they must start to play enemies and idiots again? For whose account? What is the difference between Peter in the US Marines and Abdullah in some terrorist group? Peter thinks that he is doing the right thing, so is Abdullah too. Peter will kill Abdullah’s brother in Iraq, so what; Abdullah will kill Peter, who is somebody’s brother too. What is the difference? Both will suffer equally.

All things on this planet, good or bad whatever, have only one purpose, to distract us from using our heads.

Maybe it is now not anymore: “Ask not what you country can do for you . . . “ maybe it is now time for: “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what yourself can do for yourself, for Sergey, Joe, Mohammed, how to make them all and yourself with them happy”. Maybe its final time to start to use our heads for thinking instead only for nice and fancy hair cuts. (me on first place)

[nearmiss]

Avimimus

It is good that we (the real people of our different countries) can talk and know that the people is not the problem. It is the greedy people that are power and money hungry that keep everything at odds. They manipulate media and politics to satisfy their special interests, and there is no regard or respect for "the people" on either side of the situation.

The internet is a good thing, because we can know our friends (the people) in Russia, Greece, etc., are not about hating and being suspicious of each other.

As an American I hate it that people in other countries speak against my country. America is a rich country, but there are other rich countries as well. America gives more financial and charitable aid to troubled nations than all the rest of the world's countries combined. That should speak to people about putting our money where our mouth is. Yet, we are constantly maligned and no one speaks of the facts... what their own country doesn't do.

If America didn't do the charitable things we do... who would do it, Japan, Germany, China, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Dubai, Taiwan, etc.? No one would do it, all they do is change the subject and give a pittance (inadequate help) to meet the need. So, they let America do it and then rag on us for whatever reason they can conjure up to get away for putting up (making an effort to really do something).

Also, to clarify... Please note I said,"Radial Islam" not Islam. There is a difference.

[FA_Retro-Burn]

It doesn't matter what we all think. The political leaders will play the queen's gambit and we all pay. It is amazing to me that in the Sim arena, that we all have a darn good time on-line with people from all different backgrounds and not really let that bigotry slip through. At least in this world, we try to do the right thing no matter what flag we may be under.

[Baghr]

I have read the messages here and all have merit and a good point.

I am an American and have respect for all those that give it back or whom diserve it. I too am a Veteran having served 15 years in the United States Army. During this time I completed one tour in Iraq, getting into Baghdad the day the statue of Saddam was pulled down. More on this later. To reflect back, I spent a large amount of my youth preparing for a war against a foe I had never met for the good of our country, while never thinking twice about what I was doing, and I was proud to do so. During those years I traveled to different countries for different reason and have found interesting comparisons and people in all.

I feel there is nothing more honorable than a person willing to give his life and serve for the good of his country, regardless of the country. I will also say that freedom and peace is cherished by a soldier regardless of country. No person cherishes peace as does a soldier.

I do not find it amazing, but rather typical that people from different countries can get along regardless of their political bearing or place of birth, if the persons involved have the capacity to respect one another other on at least a human level. I have been truly humbled by others that have so little, but so much at the same time.

I went to Iraq ready to oust the leader and right his wrongs, a truly idealist mindset from a person that did not have one idea about the middle east culture he was stepping into. As in all countries, I met the good and was subjected to the bad, and still felt compassion for the general person in Iraq. I truly felt honored to meet what I considered heros; those who understood what they had to lose by working with the Americans while they attempted to rebuild their country in the way they could. I was also a student of many there, understanding that my idea of freedom was not the same as theirs.

I met a proud and respectful people, but also a population that had known war and its terrors for many years, and knew what it took to survive. People that had been filed with empty promises before, and knew what could be lost by posting an aleagance without forthought of its consequences. I met honest people and was kissed on the cheek and thanked for ridding sadam and his people, then heckled and hated for the same within the hour. But one thing I learned was people can generally get along if placed one on one in a room with an open mind. I find it funny that politicians cannot do this simple task that the lowest level person can seem to be able to do. How bold of me to think I can go into a country and change their way of thinking to my values, and think this is for thier good. To me that is not what freedom is about, but the opposite. I have no greator respect and appreciation than for the people of my great country and what it was built on, but at the same time I am disgusted on some of the perversions I have to be subjected to under the name of freedom to express themselves. I could go on regarding this point but I will choose not to.

The United States has not had a great track record as stated in following through with its intentions, which is as much to blame on the public as it is on the politicians involved. I think it is unreasonable to make blanket statements regarding a population, never the less a countries veiw or stand on something, as there are too many variables. There has always been sabre rattling between the countries, and the cold war was fought and won through economics rather than bullets shot. I am not a smart enough man and certaintly do not have enough information to make an informed decision on whether America should have gotten involved in Iraq, nor do I have a solution on how it should be ended. I hate to see anyone die before their time, but would gladly lay my live down in the name of freedom and for my country that I cherish. Do not ask me how to explain this as I cannot. I would truly hate to see another setback in communications involving the people of Russia and the United States.

One thing I believe in is that good people die during a war, and to educate yourself in anothers culture will make you a richer person in the long run, while breaking down the barriers of ignorance. I do not wish harm to my brothers and sisters living in other countries, as we are all humans and many times even share the same interests, as seen at this website and many others like in on the web. I can totally understand the aprehension of the Europeans regarding the missiles in Poland, and I remember a Cuban incident that was not tolerated by American when the tables were turned the other way. How can I expect one to live or follow a different standard that I do?

As stated, I too have learned much about the Russia's involvment in the second world war through my interest in this sim, which is much more than that, but is truly a gateway for international relationships and understanding. I just hope I am able to teach my children of some of these valuable lessons of toleration.

Baghr

[Blackdog_kt]

Sorry if it seems i'm verbally attacking someone's country and/or beliefs, i'm just a bit frustrated lately with the state of things in general. As for the US in particular, i don't doubt one bit their contributions in various fields during the course of human history, but i still have to look out for the less than ideal events and discuss them with people so that something might be done.

The US is a very powerful country, but compared to some of the weaker ones out there it's still an infant historically. That is not meant as an insult, it just is that way, but metaphorically speaking to many of the Europeans it's like a toddler wielding a minigun. That's why you get all that flak, you make mistakes and hopefully learn as you go, but we all live on a single planet and the cost is usually shared between multiple parties against their own volition.

That being said, it's very funny that having studied the English language for 9 years i tend to write in a manner so complicated that i miss the point, while a simpler post like Avala's is all you need to get the message across

Most importantly, it's quite amazing that while this thread has been a bit heated (and i'm guilty of that as well), it hasn't degenerated to petty namecalling and primary school era insults.

I frequent other forums about games too and on most of them political discussion is strictly prohibited, because people can't contain themselves. Presenting a different viewpoint somehow equals a personal insult for some people. So, i am very glad to see that through our fascination with war history, studying why and how things went wrong in the past, we have all learned to disagree and still have a discussion for discussion's sake and not for the purpose of convincing each other at any cost

[Baghr]

Good points Blackdog, I feel most here can agree to disagree, and most have the common bond of respect. While I have not posted since now, I have lurked for awhile.

I personally feel wars are caused because common mistakes are not remembered, or egos cloud common sense decisions made by leaders for the good of mankind.

Edited for typos

[Chivas]

Nice post Baghr

I believe people are the same no matter where they live. There is good and bad in all of us but we understand what is right by treating others as you would hope they treat you. Our main endevor is to put shelter over our heads and feed our families. We come together in groups usually for a common purpose, but sometimes leaders of these groups subvert that purpose to fit their own agendas. The group can subvert the individuals natural instinct to do right.

[Blackdog_kt]

Baghr, that's an amazing post. I always hoped that people are not all the same and we can't confine them to simple stereotypes, thank you for reaffirming my beliefs in the positive side of human nature. I think there's no greater strength of character than conceding the benefit of doubt to a person with an opposing viewpoint, trying to see both sides of the coin so to speak (or all sides of the rubic's cube in the case of politics )

People go to wars and come back all sorts of different than before they went there. Some will come back as weak and ravaged men, others will become cold blooded killers and some will be turned into mere animals, functioning only on the instinct of survival. It's good to know that some people actually come back wiser for all the difficulties they've had to go through.