FMB Poll

[Ataros]

Looks like no one answered what is missing from the new FMB compared to the original IL-2 one? Is it just a myth then?

[ElAurens]

Ease of use would be my comment.

I fully understand how to make missions that suit the needs of myself and my friends in IL2/46.

I can't even make a home base appear in CLOD, much less place ground objects/armour/etc... Nor do I know how to "import" what I have done into the online part of the game so I can see it to start it.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I can't even make a home base appear in CLOD, much less place ground objects/armour/etc...

Just navigate to a desired item (spawnpoint, airfield, armour, etc.) in Object Browser and CTL-leftclick to place it. I don't know how can it be done easier in original IL-2 Anyone who opens an existing mission and clicks various objects in it can easily see how they are built (spawnpoints, ground objects, etc.).

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Nor do I know how to "import" what I have done into the online part of the game so I can see it to start it.

You do not have to import anything. It is even easier. The only difference between online and offline mission is that online missions do not have a "Player" checkbox checked in any airgroup properties and most of online missions have spawnpoints ("birthplaces"). You can just start a server and load a mission in it.

I opened original IL-2 FMB a couple of times about 5-7 years ago and was scared by its complexity. The mistake I did was opening a blank map and trying to create something from scratch.

This March I did the opposite: I opened CloD offline mission in FMB and started to fine-tune it one step at a time and fly it after every change I made. Everything was self-explanatory with this approach except for 5-6 questions I could not figure out and had to ask in the FMB section, which were:
- how to rotate objects
- how to use triggers (including delayed flight)
- how to branch spawnpoints
- how to put AAA on a tanker
- (don't remember now)

Other questions were related to scripts only, i.e. to more advanced functionality compared to the original IL-2 FMB.

I think the problem is not that CloD FMB is harder to use but that it is different compared to the original one. It is harder to change habits than to learn from scratch. For various reasons people do not have enough motivation to learn by posting their questions in the FMB section or using forum search function to find answers.

[dflion]

Originally Posted by David198502

i really like the FMB....i used it in 1946 and i use it in COD.
but i have to say,...that the old FMB was easier to understand.although the main functions are the same, and also the layout remained.but with the new possibility of scripting, im totally lost.i dont understand a word, if i look at scripts, and never could create one by myself.all i could do is to copy and paste.but i would like to understand how it works, to use the full potential of this feature.
one thing that bugs me most, is that im not even able to start different flights at different times anymore.it was sooo easy in 1946 and now one have to write a script for it....
detailed documentation is really required, but not only for the fmb but also for the planes...

I am currently doing some final testing on a 12 mission Ju88 bomber campaign, it is looking very good, the Ju88 is great to fly - just for the 'Bomber members'. The new FMB is similar to the old one, though there has been some 'dislectic decisions' in some of the changes.

I totally agree with David198502 above, taking out the 'time start box' on the flight creating menu, so that you can start flights at different times, is crazy?
I have been experimenting with the scripting, with mixed results, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't?
I am trying to learn C basic, though it takes time. What Ilya and his team could do to help us all, is create a 'basic script' for all missions to get us up and running with FMB campaigns.
This script would have mission 'successfully completed' or 'failed' scripting then some sort of scripting to let us continue to the next campaign mission after 'successfully completing the previous one. This is all we need to get everybody creating some good campaigns.
I have asked Ataros and a few other script writers, for help to create this ''basic script' though, haven't had any responses, that I know of to date?

Sadly, I think Ilya has put the FMB later on his 'to do' list. It needs a lot of work still, some 'auto script programmes' written and a few 'command decisions' to re-introduce some of the the old FMB features that really made IL-2 Sturmovik stand way out from the other flight sims at the time.

DFLion

[bolox]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Looks like no one answered what is missing from the new FMB compared to the original IL-2 one? Is it just a myth then?

2 obvious ones are:-

mission success parameters (both primary and secondary)- without scripts

destruction brush

number 1 being a 'little bit important' for offline campaigns imho


we all come at this new fmb with different expectations /experience levels and different ways of working- my IL2 fmb useage was rather limited (but i always started with a blank map and experimented from there) but unless my memory is blanking out stuff i'm finding cod fmb to be more frustrating- it certainly seems to need a different frame of mind, needing a more 'technical' mindset than the 'creative' one that orig IL2 encouraged(imho).

to finish i'd like to thank you (and all the others) for all the hints (however cryptic they appear).

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by dflion

I have asked Ataros and a few other script writers, for help to create this ''basic script' though, haven't had any responses, that I know of to date?

I am not a script writer, I am rather a "script reader" and can copy and paste scripts sometimes if they are not too complicated. You can search for vetochka campaigns at airwarfare.com which hosts their translated versions. The latest campaign has basic scripts with success criteria and score calculation. Probably other authors of offline campaigns have their own versions of similar scripts which you can start working with.

If you post your script in the FMB section I am sure C# programmers will be ready to give advice and correct your mistakes if any. They need something concrete to start working with, say the above vetochka's scripts which you adopt for your campaign.

I think the most simple way to check for mission success would be to include 4 triggers into each of campaign missions (for target group destroyed by 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%) and ask C# programmers to write a specific script that would report results and load new mission depending on which trigger was active in the end of the previous mission. But you have to be very specific about what you need to achieve, e.g. if you want to repeat the previous mission in case of failure, etc.

[dflion]

I will post my script in the FMB section and ask for some help. The script works ok sometimes, then it doesn't? I will have a look at the 'vetochka' campaign scripts, as you suggested.

In the Ju88 campaign there are three flying training/positioning type missions, then the rest are combat missions. Two missions are 'dive-bombing' and the rest are 'pattern bombing'. I won't release it until I am happier with the scripting and hopefully the latest patch will be released, so that I can test it in it.

For the combat missions, all we need is 'a trigger' that says you got over the actual target area ok, then you made it back ok. Not sure what happens if you get 'shot down'?
Anyway, I will see what happens. I am sure I will eventually master writing the scripts, it just is the 'time factor', on top of creating a good interesting historical campaign.

DFLion

[Ataros]

At sukhoi.ru forums both campaign makers vetochka and piper-kiev team up with more experienced C# programmers to write scripts together. This proved to be an effective approach. When you start your thread in the FMB section I hope one of C# experts will be eager to help you.

BTW try talking to Mington. He knows C# but only starts learning CloD methods. I think your cooperation can be mutually beneficial. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=26036&page=4

Originally Posted by dflion

For the combat missions, all we need is 'a trigger' that says you got over the actual target area ok, then you made it back ok. Not sure what happens if you get 'shot down'?

You can place some ground units in target area and use a "target destroyed" triggers to see what percentage of a target was destroyed.
I think you also need some fool-proof as a time restrain to get back to airfield in case all other triggers fail. You can add triggers which get active if the group is destroyed. Furthermore if aircrafts are damaged and crashland they are not considered destroyed and you can add some checks in OnAircraftCrashlanded method (e.g. check if the aircraft is player's aircraft). If a player lands at a different airfield you can use OnAircraftLanded method to make checks.

With recent beta you can add a TAB - 4 menu command e.g. "Submit mission report" that a player would need to select to end mission. You can check player status when this command is selected to decide if player made it back to base or not. This would prevent players from waiting till mission end if triggers fail.

[dflion]

Thanks again Ataros, you are pointing me in the right direction.
I will post my 'standard mission script' in the FMB area tomorrow and I really like your statement 'I think your co-operation can be mutually beneficial' ('very Russian') especially talking to Mington who seems to be very keen to help, even though he is learning about COD.
DFLion