Mods discussion, links, etc

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I will not let anyone forbid me to say my oppinion... nowhere! Especially in a place, where so much people expressed their oppinion too. Why should I keep quiet then, huh?

I'm sorry for the author, who's kind request was for nothing. But I will not take that on my head, boy!

[Azimech]

I have the feeling a lot of modders may have wanted their stuff to be included but if it's rejected due to sub-standard work, it may hurt the ego.
On the other hand stuff that's looks good but is much more complex and would cause a huge fps drop on old machines, isn't it time for some users to upgrade?

And I understand the position of Maddox Games/1C/TD, lowering the standards for inclusion of mods will make some people happy, it will piss off a huge amount of people, and will start a new endless discussion. Where would it stop? It's a slippery slope. Better to accept certain parts of the game that are outdated but at least familiar and characteristic, than to suddenly change something on a fundamental level that could divide the community again.

But I would like, and please read "like" not "demand", to read what the difficulties are for inclusion of some mechanism that looks inside a folder with custom, user installed, sounds. If they're not there, stock is used. That way it would be the user's own responsibility, no-one would have to pay royalties or provide tech-help. I used to play Doom II with "NI" coming out of my handgun, monsters sounding like John Cleese and other Holy Grail sounds. Hilarious.

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Originally Posted by Azimech

[...]
On the other hand stuff that's looks good but is much more complex and would cause a huge fps drop on old machines, isn't it time for some users to upgrade?[...].

The game has to be able to run on machines with the minimun specs reported on the box. I guess a 100 MB cockpit would turn the game into a slide show even with minimun settings.

[Azimech]

The box... I have the DVD here that was printed in 2006.

Pentium III or Athlon 1 Ghz. 64 MB 3D Card. 512 MB memory.

That *severly* limits development, these values were common 10 years ago.
I know of no-one who uses such ancient crap for playing IL2 (the ones who do, should get themselves a foam baseball bat and hit themselves on the head with it). I see dual core machines placed on the sidewalks as garbage nowadays.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Azimech

I know of no-one who uses such ancient crap for playing IL2 (the ones who do, should get themselves a foam baseball bat and hit themselves on the head with it). I see dual core machines placed on the sidewalks as garbage nowadays.

What an arrogant attitude that is.
I occasionally play it on a Mobile Athlon 64 with a ATI Radeon 9700 And I don't want to miss that possibility.
Ist still remember very well that day, as 1CM introduced the 'new clouds' and I wasn't able to play it on my 800MHz P4 with Geforce 4 anymore. I was quite upset. And did you know, there are still people playing it via 56kb modems!

You should know, that the world isn't everywhere as shiny as at your home.

The stock standards won't change. Period.

[Artist]

My 2 cents for the two discussions:

- Quality of Mods: many a thousand dillettantes are required for one or two true masters to emerge. You cannot have the latter without the first.

- System requirements: Many more people simply cannot afford what is just ordinary standard to many.

I am glad about all the modders, glad about the quality-filter provided by TD and glad about TD's "The stock standards won't change" policy: If offers me and everybody else the freedom of accessibility and choice.

Artist

[ocococ]

I suggest that if Mods,Modpacks,Franken planes or whatever else your problems are...that they should be left out of any Mod related threads!

So posts that are related to "mods" should be left out of "mod related" threads?

[Azimech]

"640 KB ought to be enough for anyone"

Sure, progress should be limited to facilitate the lowest common denominator.

Let's upgrade the car by adding rubber mats, so the farmers can step in the car with their muddy boots, instead of upgrading the suspension so it has a smoother and faster ride, but the farmer has to walk a little because the car won't go through the mud anymore.

With the abundance of ultra-cheap PC parts *above* the minimum reqs everywhere on the planet, I think it's arrogant that the game should run on a few old laptops with all the settings on ultra, when after installing the *optional* patch, you could also lower some settings somewhat.

And no, I don't have money or a modern machine. The specs of my machine were high-end in 2005.

One more thing ... the fact that a huge amount of people are limited by 56Kbps has nothing to do with relative personal wealth or the availability of parts. It's about the costs of providing a long cable to distant rural areas. It shouldn't influence online play (and if you really plan on visible moving control surfaces for online games, it will).

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Well, if DT owned, like 200 Chinese slaves, trained to do 3D modeling, texturing and Java programming, then DT could easily produce a high quality replacement for each franken-plane, cockpit, or object that modders ever put out, in no time.

This gets back to my point about giving modders official standards to work from, and trying to recruit less skilled modders as "apprentices" or "outside contractors." I think that a lot of folks who are currently doing sub-standard mods would be happy to work with DT, and work up to DT's standards, if they only knew how.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

'Extra aircraft'... like the 100 versions of Bf109 or the horrible Frankenplanes?

But what's wrong with 100 versions of the Bf109?

It was the major German fighter of WW2 and was in production from 1936 to 1958 (including the S-99, S-199 and the Hispano Buchon). The current lineup of Bf-109s only covers a fraction of total variants.

Given how many people have a love affair with the hardware of the Third Reich, and how it seems like every fourth person playing IL2 wants to pretend to be Erich Hartmann, why not give them what they want?

DT could easily make a whole bunch of mods obsolete by tweaking existing FM, DM and 3d models to produce the following:

1) Models or production blocks of existing planes not currently included in the game, which had significant weaponry and performance variations. Examples: P-38E, P-38F, P-47B, P-40M, B-25B, Hurricane MkIIId & MkIV.

(BTW, the modded P-38E & F series was done by Gibbage, who built the original P-38 model for IL2. Hardly sub-standard work)

2) Western Allies planes with performance modeled on 100 octane gas.

3) Allied planes with theater/role specific ammo loadouts (i.e., more API rounds for U.S. Pacific theater fighters, no tracers for nightfighters.)

4) Full historical ordinance loadouts for the more popular planes. (e.g., rockets on P-40s and later Hurricanes, Cargo loadouts for cargo planes.)

5) Eastern Front variants of U.S./U.K. lend-lease planes (e.g., A-20C with Soviet dorsal turret and ordinance).

6) Captured, Lend-Lease or export variants of existing planes. (e.g. Romanian variant of the PZL-7, Yugoslavian variant of the Hurricane Mk I)

7) Realistic hypothetical loadouts and other features, especially those tested as prototypes or produced as field mods. (e.g., P-38 Lightning with torpedo loadout, nightfighter variants of Me-262, Mosquito, Bf-110, etc.).

Carrier-based versions of existing planes: Sea Hurricane, Sea Gladiator, ETF-51D Sea Mustang.

9) Realistic hypothetical planes. Not "Luftwaffe 1946" crap, but variants of existing planes which were tested or seriously considered. e.g., Hurricane MkI with Hercules or DB601 engine, IAR 80 with BMW 801 engine, Ju-87C (carrier version).