Bf-110 is THE fighter - Page 4

Doc_uk · #31 04-12-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbuchele

It´s a new beast compared to Il2 in my opinion.
If used with B&Z tatics you can eat spitfires and hurricanes for lunch.
The visuals in this game are so incredible too,I was catching a Spitfire with diffficulty, almost in tree top height,with no hope to reach it,when decided to do a high yo-yo,and suddenly have a brief firing solution: give it a 2 sec burst and just saw one single hit in the left aileron when the spit was in a 90 degree turn.
It slowly turn even more to te left and crash to the ground exploding beautifully.
There are so many of this beautiful moments happening, but it´s really difficult to me to express in words because I´m not a native english speaking person...

You proberly had everything set on easy

And you dont eat spits for lunch, you might for breakfast, but not lunch

Strike · #32 04-12-2011, 09:32 PM

Personally I think the 110 is more like using a 20 mm gun firing a single round against a flying sparrow.

If you set everything up just right, and add a little luck you might just hit it as it zooms by. And the result? Devastation! Ziel zerstört!!!

123-Wulf-123 · #33 04-12-2011, 09:34 PM

The 110 in Il2 was a beast when flown with correct tactics and preferably in schwarm formations online, I was part of Oktoberfest's Circus on Warclouds and we were so effective at WHACKING Spitfairies

and MyLittle Ponies

, that the WC crowd changed the rules to knobble 110s flying together as teams.

I have no doubt it will be just as effective flown correctly in CoD, and in fact I am enjoying flying against squads of Spitfairies and Hurris, Ansons, Walrus etc and shooting them out of the sky

Poor Buzz...sorry to burst your little bubble

*Buzzsaw* · #34 04-12-2011, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Well that's the historical fact, wheter you like it or not. It was discussed in lenght on a non-kiddie board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by F19Gladiator View Post
The blatant failure of the Bf 110 in air to air fighting in the BoB is often repeated in literature. Christer Bergström in his book ”Luftstrid över kanalen”(1), 2006, has analyzed the victory and loss statistics in the BoB and presents a different picture to the usually repeated "Bf 110 fighter BoB disaster" scenario.[/SIZE][/FONT]

The confirmed aerial victories achieved by Bf 109 units amounted to 815 while the Bf 110 units gathered 407 confirmed victories.
A comparison between confirmed victories and operational losses due to air battles gives at hand that in the period 8 August to end of October 1940:
Bf 109 units scored 815 victories to 489 losses – a ratio of 1,7:1
Bf 110 units scored 407 victories to 185 losses – a ratio of 2,2:1

In October the Bf 110 units even had a ratio of 3:1 while the Bf 109 units dropped to 1,4:1.

Christer Bergström continues to discuss the matter as well as comparing Spifire and Hurricane relative performances and some of the RAF unit’s performance, RAF Bomber command losses, coastal command and the Fleet Air Arm..
When finally comparing the scores by Bf 109 and Bf 110 units as mentioned above with the estimated true losses by each side for the period July-October 1940 it turns out that in approximate figures the authentic victories versus actual air battle losses where:

Spitfire 550 victories to 329 losses – a ratio of 1,7:1
Hurricane 750 victories to 603 losses – a ratio of 1,2:1
Bf 109 780 victories to 534 losses – a ratio of 1,5:1
Bf 110 340 victories to 196 losses – a ratio of 1,7:1

Bergström continues by discussing the validity of the data including the difficulties in identifying if a Bf 109 or 110 shot down a RAF fighter, however, the outcome is that minimum 25-30% of all British aircraft losses inflicted by Luftwaffe fighters were scored by Bf 110s.
The “Total failure of the Bf 110 as a fighter aircraft in the BoB” is perhaps another BoB Myth worth reassessing?

The fact is that on several occasions the Bf 110 units performed better than the Bf 109 units on a particular day. When deployed tactically correct using the advantages the Bf 110 offered the Bf 110 was still a lethal weapon in air-to-air fighting which I believe Christer Bergström is able to show.
When used as a high altitude escort, not being tied to close escort to the bomber force, it made effective diving attacks on RAF fighters using surprise, high speed and it’s heavy nose armament to score victories.
Long range and an extra pair of eyes was also helpful in air battle, the range enabling to wait for the right moment to strike and the extra pair of eyes increasing the situational awareness of the pilot in an air battle.

The rest of you post I don't care, its the usual blabbering and nonsense...

If you want to suggest that when quoted the contents of your own board are blabbering and nonsense, then feel free...

You don't by the way, even quote directly from Bergstrom's book, we have 2nd hand account... typical.

In any case, Bergstrom's comments and facts are to be taken with a large grain of salt. There were 224 serviceable on strength 110's at the start of the Battle, the Germans lost 196... not a good ratio.

You point to the fact the British lost a higher percentage of their starting fighter force. There are some very good reasons for that, number one they were heavily outnumbered.

According to the official RAF Battle of Britain site there were the following serviceable daylight fighters available on August 10th:

Spitfire - 245
Hurricane - 382
Defiant - 22
Gladiator - 2

Total - 651

These aircraft were distributed all over Britain, they could not abandon the midlands or the north, only some 450 were based southern England ready to meet the Luftwaffe. Against them on August 10, according to the original Luftwaffe reports, there were serviceable aircraft amounting to:

109: 805

110: 224

Heinkel, Dornier, Ju-88: 998

Ju-87 - 261

Total: 2288 aircraft

The RAF was outnumbered by more than 4-1 in the main battle area. And the RAF's fighters main task was to shoot down German bombers, not fighters. This was not a case of fighter versus fighter matchup, it was a case of the heavily outnumbered RAF going for the bombers, while having to fight off greater numbers of German fighters.

What were the losses?

In total the British lost 1,023 fighters, including the two seater Defiants.

The Germans lost 873 fighters and 1,014 bombers destroyed in the daylight phase of the battle. 1887 aircraft. They also lost a number of coastal aircraft and recon.

In addition, the British lost 376 bombers and 148 aircraft from Coastal Command, but the bombers and coastal command aircraft were almost entirely lost at night during the strategic bombing of German industrial targets, and the bombing of the channel ports at night, not due to Luftwaffe dayfighter action. Conversely, when the Germans began their night bombing 'Blitz', which ran from Mid September '40 to May of '41, they lost approx. 600 bombers.

Total loss comparison was therefore 1.84 to 1 in favour of the British during the daylight battles, despite the fact they were heavily outnumbered.

If Kurfurst wants to try to set up loss ratios without taking into account the total loss figures and strength comparisons, he is welcome to do so, but his conclusions are not going to have any serious credibility.

123-Wulf-123 · #35 04-12-2011, 09:46 PM

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,

CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

JG53Frankyboy · #36 04-12-2011, 09:54 PM

As a sidenote, only TWO squadrons of all the units Bf110 were used as fighterbombers during the BOB, 1. & 2./ErpGrp210 (3. flew 109 fighterbombers till November )

and i hope 1C will change the 110C-4/-7 canons to MG-Ff/M soon.

bongodriver · #37 04-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123-Wulf-123

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,

CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

I don't think thats the case, just stating well documented 'facts', and in all fairness it is generally aknowledged that the 109 was the most superior and numerous aircraft overall adding to that the german pilots were also arguably superior too, considering they were more experienced and battle hardened....well they did start it after all

but despite that the Brits and foreign contingents somehow kicked 'arsch'

Bewolf · #38 04-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbuchele

It´s a new beast compared to Il2 in my opinion.
If used with B&Z tatics you can eat spitfires and hurricanes for lunch.
The visuals in this game are so incredible too,I was catching a Spitfire with diffficulty, almost in tree top height,with no hope to reach it,when decided to do a high yo-yo,and suddenly have a brief firing solution: give it a 2 sec burst and just saw one single hit in the left aileron when the spit was in a 90 degree turn.
It slowly turn even more to te left and crash to the ground exploding beautifully.
There are so many of this beautiful moments happening, but it´s really difficult to me to express in words because I´m not a native english speaking person...

Anybody said "the" fighter?

agreed.

123-Wulf-123 · #39 04-12-2011, 10:44 PM

It's a beast...........

*Buzzsaw* · #40 04-12-2011, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123-Wulf-123

Here we go with the compulsive, obsessive, 12 page threads on why Spitfires were the best plane in the world ever, ever, and the nasty Messerschitts were the worst ever, ever,

CHARTS!!!!

We need CHARTS!!!!!!!

Geez get a life.

Actually what we are seeing from your comments is a 'gamer' congratulating himself on getting an aircraft with an unrealistic advantage, and then whining when the true facts are presented.

For those of us who prefer to think CLIFFS OF DOVER is what was promised, ie. a "SIMULATION", pointing out instances where an aircraft has an ahistorical advantage is simply good feedback.