Friday update and duscussions 2011-02-18

Originally Posted by David603

Remember there is a camera feature in the sim that comes with things like adjustable exposure time?

Those are the same tracers, just that picture was made with a shorter exposure time.

I know...That is my point...So what is the "real" look of of tracer if what we've got is exposure time dependant ? What did real pilot see when they fired bullets ? If the wobble we see in guncam is a deformation from the camera , wouldn't the " laser" effect also be an artefact ?
Just wondering...

Salute !

[David603]

Originally Posted by kalimba

I know...That is my point...So what is the "real" look of of tracer if what we've got is exposure time dependant ? What did real pilot see when they fired bullets ? If the wobble we see in guncam is a deformation from the camera , wouldn't the " laser" effect also be an artefact ?
Just wondering...

Salute !

You're right, but the tracers don't look so much like lasers in the gameplay videos.

As it is, I'm quite happy with the tracers the way they are, because in the older pictures, with the "laser" effect, the tracers look exactly right when compared to videos taken from similar angles, implying that if the exposure time is similar in-game compared to the camera, the results will be similar.

So, if the game engine tries to mimic the human eye when in motion, the tracers should look right.

I suppose the only way to find out exactly how the tracers should look in motion would be to directly compare real tracers and the sim.

Regards

Originally Posted by David603

You're right, but the tracers don't look so much like lasers in the gameplay videos.

As it is, I'm quite happy with the tracers the way they are, because in the older pictures, with the "laser" effect, the tracers look exactly right when compared to videos taken from similar angles, implying that if the exposure time is similar in-game compared to the camera, the results will be similar.

So, if the game engine tries to mimic the human eye when in motion, the tracers should look right.

I suppose the only way to find out exactly how the tracers should look in motion would be to directly compare real tracers and the sim.

Regards

Interesting...The main goal of Oleg's COD is to be historicaly correct.To represent what real pilots saw and heard for real...Not to be pleasing or "complaisant..." Oleg always said that is color scheme were based on real observations and NO pictures or films were reliable...So , why doesn't that apply for tracers ?
Since we can't reproduce what we see on guncam about the tracers due to camera distortions, why can we assume that what was filmed from another camera was then accurate ? Did the human eye see the same thing or not ?
The're is only one way to be sure...It is to ask real pilots who fired real bullets..Then they could compare with what we "think' is accurate...

Salute !

[David603]

My point was that if the aim of the sim is to reproduce a "human" viewpoint, and if a still camera in real life and a still camera in the sim produce almost identical images, then by extension the sim in motion should (hopefully) look like what the human eye would see.

We need to see more of the sim in motion before we could get useful info by comparing it to peoples memories. No amount of pictures will work, like you said, a fast moving object like a tracer round will always look different on a still picture to what the human eye sees.

[katdogfizzow]

Yes!

Originally Posted by David603

My point was that if the aim of the sim is to reproduce a "human" viewpoint, and if a still camera in real life and a still camera in the sim produce almost identical images, then by extension the sim in motion should (hopefully) look like what the human eye would see.

We need to see more of the sim in motion before we could get useful info by comparing it to peoples memories. No amount of pictures will work, like you said, a fast moving object like a tracer round will always look different on a still picture to what the human eye sees.

I understand..But as I stated, even a still camera in real life doesn't mean that it is acceptable as a reference to realism, or to replicate what a human eye perceives.....Especially with fast bright moving objects....To be more precise :

" and if a still camera in real life and a still camera in the sim produce almost identical images, then by extension the sim in motion should (hopefully) look like what the camera in real life would see."

That is why Oleg doesn't rely on photographs to establish is "real colors"...Too many unknown parameters...

Salute !

[David603]

Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on how many features of a real camera are modeled into the in-game paused-motion one. We know that shutter speed and field of view are modeled, and that film effect colors aren't. AFAIK those features cover most of the differences between what a camera sees and the human eye sees, except color, of course.

Originally Posted by David603

Maybe, maybe not. I guess it depends on how many features of a real camera are modeled into the in-game paused-motion one. We know that shutter speed and field of view are modeled, and that film effect colors aren't. AFAIK those features cover most of the differences between what a camera sees and the human eye sees, except color, of course.

Very plausible...The're certainely ways to setup a real camera's features to "mimic" the human eye sensivity. And Oleg beeing a pro, I am sure he could explain how he managed to arrive to an "acceptable" similarity with human perception. Based on guncams and modern films,and "guessing" what shutter speed and film sensivity were used, he could then reproduce a realistic tracer effect......I couln'd not find any historical document describing in detail what ww2 pilots saw regarding tracers...We should interview a veteran !!!
Thanks ! Nice exchange of ideas !

Salute !

[4H_V-man]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Love the lighting. Nice corn too. Thanks for the update.

I didn't read every page, so somebody may have already noted this...that isn't corn. It's wheat.

[meplay]

just grab an ak47 fire on full auto and see how it looks