Future of simulations 2010 discussion

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by csThor

Given the playing habits and the general dweebery of +70% of the online crowd the online area and the "human factor" is grossly overrated. Most cannot think beyond their limited horizon of dogfight this, dogfight that, sportive contest and other such cr@p (planeset whines anyone?) which is why you'll never see an accurate depiction of WW2 aerial warfare online. Simply put human entertainment and a realistic simulation of aerial warfare do not go along on a grand scale. This is limited to offline campaigns and perhaps handpicked tight sub-communities.

Limiting offline is the surest and straightest way to send a sim to the gray plains of insignificance. Offline players, despite not being well represented on message boards, are still the largest customer group. Alienate them and you'll have shot yourself in the foot.

+ a lot

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

Reaching the widest possible market also means taking into account a wide range of PC hardware capability and playing style... but no matter what, there will be those who insist that modelling the bug splat is necessary and required and there will be those (if bug splat is modelled) who will insist the bug doesn't go splat in the correct manner. Meanwhile, for a reasonable amount of fliers out there, the splat will bog their PC hardware down.

I'm not a game developer but still quite IT literate and I doubt that realistic controls and engine management would swallow a huge load of resources. You don't need to render anything extra, just have a model for monitoring relatively simple and logical rules of engine behaviour vs control inputs.

Like if you don't enable booster pump while switching between tanks fuel flow might have hickups which in sim would be represented in a similar fashion as negative g's on early Hurris for example.

Also I have not seen too many comments related to adding realism to the plane controls that would have gone to extremes that would have been in the same ballpark of irrelevance as bug splats you (and me) used in previous examples. So I'm not exactly following how this comment is relevant for this discussion or was it intended as a response to me in the first place? If it was then it's a classic example of Type 2 response I posted above.

[SlipBall]

If I understand Oleg correctly, we will have full system's, management, and controls...what we won't have is realistic starting of the engine's, but. We may even see that someday through a third party effort.

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by csThor

Given the playing habits and the general dweebery of +70% of the online crowd the online area and the "human factor" is grossly overrated. Most cannot think beyond their limited horizon of dogfight this, dogfight that, sportive contest and other such cr@p (planeset whines anyone?) which is why you'll never see an accurate depiction of WW2 aerial warfare online.

True every word you're saying I recon, don't have too much online experience but I guess it's often a fragfest. And offline indeed is a mandatory piece which I couldn't live without.

I just started wondering whether arranging simulating WW2 aerial warfare online is indeed a mission impossible. One thing that there might be a lot to learn from is iRacing. For those of you not familiar with it, it's a pay per month approach of arranging true racing simulation online. You need to log with your real name (I think it was controlled by cross checking with your credit card) and there is an active governing hosted by the staff and the community to keep the experience top-notch.
I tried it and never ended up with a morons crashing or whining in the races or in the boards. You progressed in rank as you learned and the level of opposition remained challenging. I had to give it up as the level was too high for me at the moment, but I long to log in again and drive a few races. It's no GT5 when it comes to volumes but it has a community 20k strong.

I just wonder how many of the WW2 enthusiasts would be interested enough to invest a few bucks monthly for a well arranged and facilitated WW2 experience with mission/campaign focus, solid chain of command and only gentlemen in your wing. I would give high-fives for a thing like that, but I wonder if I'm the only nut willing to invest on something like that. Probably not enough volume for a 24x7 running controlled experience but with scheduled flying nights I think it might be easy to get a server filled over and over again.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Last night online I sank 6 capital ships online (which one of the main red objectives listed in the map brief!) and only encountered one lone Blue plane on the last mission which failed to shoot me down before I reached the target area a sank another ship.

There were plenty of Blue planes but as you know 'Wolves' and Dachshund hunt in packs! There were plenty of blue comments on shoulder shooting etc and I was even making remarks about how The Blues must really hate their Navy. I myself was flying buy myself which was very un-realistic. (A majestic Englist Pointer if you may!)

Which only goes to show that a developer can create the most realistic aircraft and environments, The mission designer can craft a intricate and/or historically accurate senario, but unless the people with their bums on their seats show a bit of dicipline it all comes to nought!


Cheers!

[Tte. Costa]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Last night online I sank 6 capital ships online (which one of the main red objectives listed in the map brief!) and only encountered one lone Blue plane on the last mission which failed to shoot me down before I reached the target area a sank another ship.

There were plenty of Blue planes but as you know 'Wolves' and Dachshund hunt in packs! There were plenty of blue comments on shoulder shooting etc and I was even making remarks about how The Blues must really hate their Navy. I myself was flying buy myself which was very un-realistic. (A majestic Englist Pointer if you may!)

Which only goes to show that a developer can create the most realistic aircraft and environments, The mission designer can craft a intricate and/or historically accurate senario, but unless the people with their bums on their seats show a bit of dicipline it all comes to nought!


Cheers!

impossible to explain it better!

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

exactly

and then there are all the different flavours of PC Hardware itself, from CPU's to mobo's to soundcards, not to mention the plethora of VGA's.

I find the G940 just has issues - period... and made a mistake in purchasing it.

Thankfully we don't have to drop $50-200 on sound cards any more. Pretty much the only reason to get one is for professional sound work. Today's mainboards are great for onboard sound (most even support 7.1) and the odds are you're going to have to spend a few hundred on your speakers before you're even close to hearing the limits of onboard sound quality.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by whatnot

I'm not a game developer but still quite IT literate and I doubt that realistic controls and engine management would swallow a huge load of resources.

It depends on how deeply the want for modelling is really. You're right in a way that "procedure" (flicking switches in the right order) doesn't require any extra rendering but the math required for the "procedure" (the want for the effects of worn seals/ almost rancid hydraulic oil/ a dodgy injector/ intermittent loose wire on a cockpit gauge, for instance, or the added "realism: of the bug splat) involved is what would bog down hardware.

we need to be careful that we don't make the mistake of misinterpreting realism/ realistic/ procedure, lest we end up in casuistry to further agenda

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

If I understand Oleg correctly, we will have full system's, management, and controls...what we won't have is realistic starting of the engine's, but. We may even see that someday through a third party effort.

Engine starts like this you mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XVgC...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkcX0KGIBwk

That would be awesome. Of course radials only start that badly if let sit for a while.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Engine starts like this you mean

That would be awesome. Of course radials only start that badly if let sit for a while.

The Beech 17 is my favourite aircraft. I wonder if they hand swng her backwards to pump the oil out of the cylinders? Is that where the puddle of oil on the floor came from?

Cheers!