Constructive comments on BOB historical accuracy in Acft skins/markings

[Rodolphe]

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Originally Posted by DoolittleRaider

What it should look like...note the shark teeth, specifically, which were on all II./ZG76 110's from the Battle of France onward, and also the camouflage paint scheme...a scheme of multi-green colors specifically dictated by RLM rather than the later browns and other colors in various theaters.

Though a march 2008 screen, this "Haifisch" skin could be available in this game.

Originally Posted by DoolittleRaider

Also, by the time of the BofB, I believe all 110’s would have been using the Wide white bordered Balkenkruezen as shown in this Profile, not the Narrow white trim of the pre-war through 1939 timeframe.

There are always some counter examples.

Bf 110 [/B]3M+AA ZG 2flown by Oblt.Wilhem Schaefer shot down on September 4th 1940.





Bf 110 C-1 U8+HL W. nr. 1372 ZG 26 crewed by Fw. Hermann Brinkmann and uffz. Erwin Grüschow shot down on September 11th 1940.

Note the I. Gruppe white nose and rear fuselage band applied in the latter stage of the Battle of Britain.





On the Russian theatre, this Bf 110 E S9+AH, 1./SKG 210 (SchnellKampfGeschwader 210)
of Oblt Wolfgang Schenk has been seen at Seschtchinskaya in september 1941 wearing these "early style Balkenkreuz".







But it will be nice to have the fuselage "larger Balkenkreuz" for the game Bf110. ; )


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[Rodolphe]

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I could have missed the "perfect" game screen but
I haven't seen any BoB SoW Bf 110 screen with the aircraft letter codes duplicated on the upper wing like on those actual Zerstörer pictures.
























Not to mention the Do 17, He 111, Ju 87, Ju 88 ...

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[DoolittleRaider]

Rodolphe,

Thanks for posting those photos. It's clear from them that at least some 110's had not changed their balkenkreuzen by the time of the BofB. I'll pass those photos on to the Eagles over Europe Project which is a massive database on WWII aircraft and operations.

With regard to the aircraft letter codes on 110 wings, I agree that they should be there, just as they should be on Ju-87's (which I had researched for another project)...I just thought that I had already thrown enough 'constructive' suggestions/tweaks into the mix.

I think that at some point in the war after BofB they may have stopped placing the ID letters on the 110 wings.

Also, thanks for digging up that 2008 WIP screenie with the shark teeth. It's very comforting and reassuring to know that the teeth are out there, somewhere.

[JG53Frankyboy]

i hope the the JG53 gets its Ace of Spades back if the mission is after 20.November 1940

[csThor]

According to my information that date's outside the scope. I did not make the "Ace of Spades" emblem ...

[DoolittleRaider]

@cs Thor...Just curious if you included the Griffin emblem of St. G 3, shown below on a customized IL2 skin and in the profiles below that. I have a specific interest in this unit as a result of my work on this Stuka website... Ultimately I would like to replace all/most of the IL2 images at the website with higher quality/detailed SOW:BofB Stuka aircraft screenies, and video clips.






Emblem clearly shown below...please disregard that this is a Spring 1941 paint scheme

[csThor]

For the BoB StG 3 (and only Stab and I./StG 3!) was raised and as a brand new unit it did not use emblems before spring 1941. It was a PITA to research that but all evidence I managed to find points to this.

There're quite a lot of mixups about german emblems around and it was not easy to find the grains of truth here.

[jameson]

Doolittle, this is why profiles are useless:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/602to607.html

This the RAF's, Mod's official site, you'd think they would know! But it's obvious from the original B&W photo that their profile is incorrect.

Good luck with your projects.

[DoolittleRaider]

Originally Posted by csThor

For the BoB StG 3 (and only Stab and I./StG 3!) was raised and as a brand new unit it did not use emblems before spring 1941. It was a PITA to research that but all evidence I managed to find points to this.

There're quite a lot of mixups about german emblems around and it was not easy to find the grains of truth here.

As a matter of historical interest only, (NOT a criticism in any way of SOW:BOB WIP updates) I've learned that St.G76 had used the Griffin emblem (white griffin on green shield) since possibly as early as the Poland campaign. The Stukas of I./St.G 76 became on/about 9 July 1940 the 1st Gruppe of the newly created St.G3, and seem to have retained their griffin emblem which continued to be displayed through the Balkan and maybe 1941 Med campaigns. Likewise, the aircraft/unit also carried forward the Code letters S1 of the de-activated St.G 76 until as late as the deployment to North Africa, whereas the other Gruppen of St.G 3 used the newly created S7 code of St.G 3.
Source is Eagles over Europe Project and also this modeller (Tango 098 )'s reference, among others:
"It was also common for Stuka units to carry their respective emblems on both sides of the forward fuselage just beneath the windscreen and in the case of the I./St.G.76 this was a white Steiermark Griffon on a green shield which the unit is known to have still been using on some of its Stukas in August 1940". http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/l...hp/t52525.html

So it would appear that Stukas of I./St.G3, at least, during Battle of France and early Battle of Britain would have continued to carry the griffin emblem. I assume that later the emblem may have been applied to other St.G3 gruppen.

Of course, by the time St.G 3 was deployed to North Africa, the emblem seems to have been removed from all St.G 3 Stukas.

[csThor]

Unfortunately it's not as clear-cut with these Stuka units. Apparently some of the "established facts" which can be found in various books and websites seem to be less clear. I did ask a number of questions on 12o'clockhigh and among the most disputed units was I./StG 3 (the other was III./StG 77).

There's a lot of nonsense about Luftwaffe units around and if you dig deeper into the matter you'll find less and less clear facts and more and more discrepancies.