Friday 2010-10-22 Dev. update and Discussion

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Sutts

I think you're missing the point here. Flying a heavy bomber mission was almost all about procedures. Without procedures there's very little else to keep your brain active.

Take away procedures and what are we left with:

1. Hit the start engines key
2. Ignore the gauges as they're boring and don't have any effect on anything anyhow
3. Firewall throttles and bounce into the air
4. Fly 2-4 hours in general direction of target
5. On approach to target, forget about the little boring details like wind speed, drift, altitude. Setting the bomb sight up would take procedures which are for nerds.
6. Push button to drop bombs over target
7. Turn around a go home for tea and medals


While I find it hard to accept that all those detailed add-on products for the MS series were produced for a "tiny" minority, I do agree that Oleg needs to focus on the things that matter to him.

I'm very happy to leave the extras to third parties and will gladly pay good money for their efforts. With all the research and coding already undertaken for individual aircraft, I should think existing third parties may be able to produce add-ons for SoW quite quickly.

I find it a shame that that the modern generation has such a short attention span that anything other than instant combat and glory is considered boring and therefore mocked. We mustn't forget that to the guys who actually flew these aircraft in combat, procedures (both on the ground and in the air) were everything...their lives really did depend on them.

From which modern game it is?
I think it isn't even from Il-2....

[NLS61]

Oleg,
If you want a very good source for various airplanes have a look at http://www.hph.cz/index.php?option=c...id=102&lang=cs
The owner of this company has quality written all over him and is known to not do things that are not authentic.
I've visited their factory lately and was very impressed with how they do things.
Maybe you want to contact them.

Niels

[Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

98% would like quick action playing online ...
the other 2% asking some uniquie features that dislike most.

so... 98% play at IL2 wings of prey and 2% at IL-1946 ?

and me i'm the 1% that would like see a briefing map in a hangar with an human avatar, ang go like GTA to my plane, and after the landing getting out my plane, to walk the hangar taking other plane

those want quick action generaly just bought a game... the true real passionate player ' the simmer' are the 2% and are willing to invest for your game....


but, i trust in you Oleg, i'm sure SOW will be the new reference to the sim flight

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Gourmand

so... 98% play at IL2 wings of prey and 2% at IL-1946 ?

When birds of prey will be sold in millions copies then you may say that it is reached the Il-2 original series status. And... anyway it is the game based on Il-2...

[150GCT_Veltro]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

Yes it was using a bit modified Il-2 engine but with new 3D models.
Don't worry. will looks close to this and lighting will be way better.
And these textures above was my photos of some part when I was flying over England (but with not enough for use directly resolution and amount of them).

However it was great, a very good tiles for England.

I totally believe in your capabilities so i don't have many worries about SoW features, but i'm worried a lot about landscape (textures).
I still don't have understood if France landscape will be different from England. I think that for the Battle of Britain immersion, would be great if we could see the landscape transition from England to France and viceversa, crossing the Channel.

You say SoW landscape will be better than the pics posted above. Ok, but what we have seen untill now is not in this direction, not for me at least. The first SoW ( above), alpha or prealpha, was really amazing.

Cockpits are a work of art!

[major_setback]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

All of this is a small niche of market. Several thousands to 20,000 comparison from half million to several millions copies (the last did Il-2).

I have a complete statistics that to decide what is important or not.

Yes it is nice feature to have complete startup procedure, to make manuals for all of the modelled planes... but... :
1. first of all see above about statistics
2. They are doing not from the zero, but based on the other code that was done originally by other team (in your case MS or Rowan's). Trust me to modify the original code is a way more easy than to create from zero by original team
3. Our team is very small but doing real things... we haven't forces for production for each flyable plane this procedure, including manuals. Samples from above - they are doing for single plane - just one (MS) and other - lets say that it isn't close even to Il-2 and can't be in competition to Il-2 in many ways (see amount of sales).

Just because great amount of sales of Il-2 (some time second to MS series, some time higher) we was able to make so cool looking cockpits and aircraft, other things... Because all money from income and even more was going for production (sad it anyway was not enough that to order more good people - programmers and airtist-modellers)

I understand. My point is that the people now buying FSX could change to SoW. That is NOT a small market, even if the add-market (as you say) is small.

I still think third parties will compete strongly with each other to make the first add-ons for SoW, putting in time and money to try to get a piece of the new market. And when that happens people (old fSX customers) will have to buy SoW to try them out!!!

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

From which modern game it is?
I think it isn't even from Il-2....

Oleg, I was responding to the following comment by brando:

And that's only the drill for a single-engined fighter. Try sorting that for a twin-engined bomber + taxying to the line + waiting for the rest + taking off + climbing to a mimimum 10,000 feet over France + + picking up the escorts ...... something near an hour so far ...... and then the fun begins. Let's hope you didn't make some kind of mistake during the start-up procedure and need to abort your flight!

He is suggesting that the fun only starts once you get over enemy territory. I guess this kind of attitude is created by the constant adrenaline fueled online furballs. I think if you asked real aircrew you'd find that procedures were vital and because of these procedures, aircrew were kept very busy and were far from bored before they reached the enemy coast.

I think takeoff with a full bomb and fuel load was probably the most dangerous/exciting/terrifying time for an aircrew. Lose an engine on takeoff and you'll most likely die in a fireball. I'd like to feel the same tension on take off....if I take a short cut and skip the warm up or fail to check the vital signs of the engines then it really is quite serious.

I still feel strongly that combat is only part of the simulator experience and knowing your aircraft systems and limits is just as important as being good in a dog fight. There are still a large number of us who prefer the offline experience. Without the checks and procedures there's very little to keep the mind occupied until you meet the enemy.

I'm not criticising your decisions at all and as I've already pointed out in a previous post, by modelling the systems you've already given us the majority of what we need for a startup procedure anyhow.

What I am trying to counter is the view that a combat simulator is JUST about the combat.

[Foo'bar]

deleted because of error.

[Gourmand]

i know that a developpement is a concession between rentability and fun feature,
and i'm not a real pilot, and turn on the radio before taking off is not interesting for me, i just don't want to see a BoP/WoP 2 with no taking off, no landing, the fast-paced game terrify me...
(i bought IL2-46 and WoP, and WoP takes the dust,) so ok WoP be sold in millions copies but i dont thing a WoP 2 and WoP 3 reach the same sold, sure -1 for me

so it's that why I say i'm trust in you, we can already see that SOW is not BoP 2

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by major_setback

I understand. My point is that the people now buying FSX could change to SoW. That is NOT a small market, even if the add-market (as you say) is small.

I still think third parties will compete strongly with each other to make the first add-ons for SoW, putting in time and money to try to get a piece of the new market. And when that happens people (old fSX customers) will have to buy SoW to try them out!!!

Its why we plan third party useful tools for the the makers of add-ons. Currently it useful only for us. Becasue we have no time to finalise them for external use before the sim will be out of gate
I was learning experience of MS with third party and get some info what is possible to give and what is not.
There are a lot of contradictions with this... especially due to online gameplay.
Sometime incorrect politics with add-ons may totally destroy the gameplay online.
The goal is to satisfy both sides:
1. these who want totally fair gameplay online with no cheating
2. these that want other set of objects, aircraft, ships, etc...

Trust me for the combat, not for the civil aircraft sim, it is very complex task to develope the code and to satisfy then all groups of interest.

CFS would be more popular with the investment power of MS, but from the beginning they did a lot of mistakes in this area.

In the other hand we can't anymore make everything ourselves - to get 3D from third party, to rework it and then to progam it, like it was with Il-2 series...it was total oveloading of our team. That all should be done on the third party side with the limits that we defining. And limits will be. For some parts - strong, for some - nothing in limit.

There is impossible to compare the MS FS third party development type with the Combat sim additions of third party. The main difference - Combat term, that defining the rules for inclusion in the game some new content by third parties. Gameplay of MS FS and any of combat flight sim is very different and its a problem to go by MS FS experience as a copy.