Friday 2010-09-17 Dev. update and Discussions

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by GBrutus

It would have been a tight fit but it was more likely down to individual pilots and how comfortable they were wearing it. It certainly wasn't impossible and there are plenty of photos of Spitfire pilots wearing Irvin jackets. I've read a few pilot accounts of how cold they were at 30,000ft even with the jacket on (unless I imagined them). Anyway, I don't think it's correct to say impossible, rather it was just difficult.

Aye, but in a combat situation it was a tough job. As you though, size can make a difference, but it is unlikely on most pilots. The colar of the Irvin is so large that it makes head movement really quite difficult. Having said that, I have seen a few pictures as you say of pilots wearing them in spits, but these may be staged...

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

The average enviromental lapse rate is about 2 Degrees C per 1000 feet. A nice summers day of lets say 30C at ground level turns into -10C at 20,000 feet.

I think I'ld want a Irvin jacket if I was on Patrol.

Cheers!

I know, hence the reason many favoured the frock (or in terms of the BoB film, a sweater) It would have been bloody hot in getting into the spit in an Irvin during the battle, and even though it would get bloody cold upstairs many still didn't wear the Irvin. It really restricted movment; wear one and this is clear. It's uncomfortable in a seating position, and the collar is a bitch.
It's a great winter jacket, and great if worn in a bomber, but for a fighter pilot it's an annoyance.
Winter was a period when many RAF pilots wore them, but even then they preferred to layer up...

[Avionsdeguerre]

Je veux jouer !
miam QMB : ) C'est pour Octobre ?
ps : Excellent travail !

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by janpitor

The possibility for customization like in win 7 is a good point. I somehow need to feel the history from the sim.

and you won't get them from tearing around the skies in a 1940 plane?

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I know, hence the reason many favoured the frock (or in terms of the BoB film, a sweater) It would have been bloody hot in getting into the spit in an Irvin during the battle, and even though it would get bloody cold upstairs many still didn't wear the Irvin. It really restricted movment; wear one and this is clear. It's uncomfortable in a seating position, and the collar is a bitch.
It's a great winter jacket, and great if worn in a bomber, but for a fighter pilot it's an annoyance.
Winter was a period when many RAF pilots wore them, but even then they preferred to layer up...

did all irvins have the same collars?

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by pupaxx

I'm very curious on how immersive would be an high altitude combat in SOW.
In Il2 series I found it very poor rendered; mostly due to wide FOW and the out scale maps (not 1:1) that rendered a too much aberrated horizon line.
Flight models it selves IMAHO are irrealistic, impossible to conduct an high speed combats with no altitude loss.
Many sources I read clearly show that during BoB interception and subsequents engagements were conducted at 20000ft 30000ft or above.
Many operational reports say things like: blue section detached from top cover formation to attack a two-ship formation of Ju88 2000ft below, after the attack was conducted they rapidly rejoined the main formation.
In Il2 when you loose your altitude, you are definitely isolated from your original package. At High altitude in Il2 seems to float in a too much instable atmosphere. In real WWII combat seems quite easy to perform a full-throttle climb and gain 2000 or 3000 ft.
I hope SOW would reproduce honestly this situations.
....Sorry for The worst english I' m capable to write
Cheers

I think it's because the real pilots did just what you say....dive, attack and climb back up. In the example you provide, they probably didn't stick around maneuvering and shooting until the 88s were in flames, but maybe executed a single boom and zoom attack on them. If you fly that way, it's easy in IL2 to regain lost altitude as well because you don't burn your energy in a series of maneuvers. I think gaining altitude at high altitudes is hard in real life too. The thin air doesn't only affect the wing's capacity to create lift, it also affects the engine's capability to produce full horsepower. This is modelled in IL2 as well, the higher you climb you can watch your manifold pressure drop for the same throttle setting.

As for the update itself, i can't comment on much that hasn't been already said. We are at a point where i think to myself "this is the best update thus far" and every subsequent Friday i think "after all, this week's update is even better than last week's". The pace of progress is not only evident, it seems to me like it has built up enough steam to come at a steady and fast pace. Friday after Friday, i get the idea we're getting closer to release. My guess is that unless something extraordinary happens, we'll be flying in SoW sometime until Christmas.

Keep up the good work dev team. You've got a buyer here and i'm going to use SoW to drag some of my buddies into flight-sims as well and help sell more copies, thanks to the dual-control Tiger Moth. I can't wait to "train" these guys, letting them fly the Moth and getting us into trouble that i will have to get us out of, a whole new kind of challenge

[choctaw111]

Looking better than I could have imagined and I've imagined quite a bit

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by MD_Titus

did all irvins have the same collars?

it's a difficult question to answer. Generally speaking, the size was relatively the same but I know for certain that the Irvin-Air-Chute version had a squared collar and the Wareings one, for example, a rounded collar. Generally though the difference is minor, and the relative size is exactly the same.

In Piece of Cake, Robinson talks of the pilots cutting off their Irvin's collars. I do not know if this was official practice or not, but it's an interesting theory.
It was a cumbersome Jacket, and I would not have enjoyed wearing it in a confined space.
However, I have never expereinced the cold at altitude so I am not the best to judge. I can say though that a layer or thermals, pyjamas, Shirt, Frock, Service Dress and Mae West would have helped to combat the cold, although an Irvin would have done a better job. Another issue is that depending on the size of Mae West, it can be a tight fit fitting it over the Irvin. I also fail to mention that Prestige Suit or a Sidcot Suit would have done an OK job when worn over the aforementioned too, but a lot of pilots didn't favour the latter suit, with the former being more the choice of pilots from Auxillary/University Air Squadrons.

At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice and comfort with the ultimate deciding factor being how well a pilot will operate in a combat situation. Alas, the latter reason proved to be many pilots downfall in the Battle when they refused to wear gauntlets or anything similar. Alternatively, I can imagine it can work the other way, with a chafed neck being the difference sometimes between life and death; hence a silk scarf.

[Fergal69]

the aircraft in the selection panel - are those flyable aircraft or al?

[smink1701]

Looks great. The Spit pilot looks like he might be dead or wounded.

[meplay]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

At the end of the day it's all down to personal choice

You can probably take it off the the pilot skin area maybe