Macchi C.200 "Saetta" (and "some" C.202), flown by a British pilot. Comparative test

[Rickusty]

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Cheers
Rick

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Rickusty

Hi everybody. Here's an account written by a British wartime pilot, Squadron Leader D.H. Clarke, D.F.C, A.F.C in his interesting book "What were they like to fly", about a captured Macchi C.200 "Saetta" he flew in North Africa.
Mr. Clarke flew many types of planes, Spitfires, P47, Hurris, P40s etc...
There are some interesting "clues" about the C.202 too... and it's so interesting to see how feared it was among the Allied pilots who encountered it in the skies in 1941-43.

Weird thing in IL2... the C.202 can't outturn a P40...



read on!

I hope you'll enjoy this.

Rick

Excellent read mate, thank you for sharing. It's weird also that some books ("courage alone" above all) glorify Italian pilots who fought boldly in inferior machines such as the CR.42, this one seems to blame them because they didn't make use of their superior aircrafts.

Like Churchill said, the first victim of wars is truth.

Regards,
Insuber

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Excellent read mate, thank you for sharing. It's weird also that some books ("courage alone" above all) glorify Italian pilots who fought boldly in inferior machines such as the CR.42, this one seems to blame them because they didn't make use of their superior aircrafts.

The book in question is an old one, 1964. It's not about blaming anyone, as I understand it, I'd like to read it someday, apparently the pilot flew over 50 different types, mostly military? for real, which may not be a world record, but if not must be close.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The book in question is an old one, 1964. It's not about blaming anyone, as I understand it, I'd like to read it someday, apparently the pilot flew over 50 different types, mostly military? for real, which may not be a world record, but if not must be close.

I agree, the book aim is not to blame anyone, and I never said that, it's only a concept that I read within the lines:

"if the 202 bore any resemblance to my 200, then the Eyeties (Brit. informal, derogatory Italian or an Italian) should have been knocking down our Kittyhawks like ninepins; and , earlier on in the war, *the 200's should have done much better than they did*"

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts *had the Italians pressed home their attacks*"

No polemics intended here. Just read carefully. Then compare with other books such as the one I quoted; my point was that this thesis (good planes, careful pilots) is quite different from what we normally read (daring pilots, not adequate planes or outnumbered). I thought it was interesting to point it out.

regards,
Insuber

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Insuber

I agree, the book aim is not to blame anyone, and I never said that, it's only a concept that I read within the lines:

"if the 202 bore any resemblance to my 200, then the Eyeties (Brit. informal, derogatory Italian or an Italian) should have been knocking down our Kittyhawks like ninepins; and , earlier on in the war, *the 200's should have done much better than they did*"

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts *had the Italians pressed home their attacks*"

I think that's the old "they boom and zoom, they ought to turn fight (then we'd get them)" that the RAF fighter pilots usually said of the Germans. It used to be said that the Italian forces weren't as committed to the fight as the Germans, I don't have any independant evidence for that (the main sources would have been allied, or axis), and it may well not have applied to their elite forces.

Just read carefully.

I did, I noticed those remarks, I just didn't take them particularly seriously.

Then compare with other books such as the one I quoted;

Much as I'd like to have these books, I don't.

my point was that this thesis (good planes, careful pilots) is quite different from what we normally read (daring pilots, not adequate planes or outnumbered). I thought it was interesting to point it out.

regards,
Insuber

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Insuber

I agree, the book aim is not to blame anyone, and I never said that, it's only a concept that I read within the lines:

"if the 202 bore any resemblance to my 200, then the Eyeties (Brit. informal, derogatory Italian or an Italian) should have been knocking down our Kittyhawks like ninepins; and , earlier on in the war, *the 200's should have done much better than they did*"

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts *had the Italians pressed home their attacks*"

I think that's the old "they boom and zoom, they ought to turn fight (then we'd get them)" that the RAF fighter pilots usually said of the Germans. It used to be said that the Italian forces weren't as committed to the fight as the Germans, I don't have any independant evidence for that (the main sources would have been allied, or axis), and it may well not have applied to their elite forces.

Just read carefully.

I did, I noticed those remarks, I just didn't take them particularly seriously.

Then compare with other books such as the one I quoted;

Much as I'd like to have these books, I don't.

my point was that this thesis (good planes, careful pilots) is quite different from what we normally read (daring pilots, not adequate planes or outnumbered). I thought it was interesting to point it out.

regards,
Insuber

[wannabetheace]

Thanks, Great pictures.

[ytareh]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The book in question is an old one, 1964. It's not about blaming anyone, as I understand it, I'd like to read it someday, apparently the pilot flew over 50 different types, mostly military? for real, which may not be a world record, but if not must be close.

Not even near the Royal Navy's Commander Eric Brown's 487+++

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_(pilot)

He also did more carrier landings than anyone else in history including first jet deck landing...
AND he's still alive and going strong ,he's even tried IL2 -found the joystick responses way too sudden/sharp if I remember correctly.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Originally Posted by ytareh

Not even near the Royal Navy's Commander Eric Brown's 487+++

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_(pilot)

He also did more carrier landings than anyone else in history including first jet deck landing...
AND he's still alive and going strong ,he's even tried IL2 -found the joystick responses way too sudden/sharp if I remember correctly.

It doesn't go straight to his page on wiki for some reason, but easy enough to find him. A fine pilot, didn't know he had tried IL-2! I think another WWII veteran pilot said the same thing about the responsiveness, think he was an American but don't recall the name.

[Rickusty]

It's very interesting to note that he also flew a Fiat G.50 "Freccia", also in North Africa.
He states that it really wasn't nothing special...
There is a chapter about it in the book. Under the picture of the G.50 he writes:

" The Fiat G.50 was very similar to the Macchi 200 with regard to engine, armament, layout, etc.,but it wasn't in the same class with regard to flyability and performance"

He also ranks the Macchi C.200 among the top 6 best planes ever he flew (together with the Spitfire II,
Hawker Fury etc) of about 50+ different types.

This book is a very interesting and an amusing read, very recommended!

This is Mr. Clarke, the author of the book.


Taken from: http://www.oceanrowing.com/Guinness_...%20(Nobby).htm


There's a very interesting chapter of an engagement against Bf.109s in that theatre and he really
states that that time the German pilots decided to get low and enter a turn dogfight against their Kittyhawks,
while he said that most of the time they BnZ whenever possible (who can blame them?)

Cheers
Rick