A very bad learning tool.....

[Jumoschwanz]

Hi all,

I recently set up IL246 on someone's computer for them along with Teamspeak and Hyperlobby because they wanted to try it all out.

My advice to them was to try flying on as hard a settings as possible so that they would learn as many skills as fast as possible, instead they did the exact opposite, flying on servers with very easy settings, arguing that they could learn easier that way. I backed off on the pressure and thought that it is okay, they are still going to learn something flying on any settings, but after trying the server they fly on I went back to my old way of thinking really fast.
Yes, I did try it, and I am pretty sure that there is zero to learn on some servers, it is simply reduced to the level of a small child's video game.

To me every box unchecked is something someone is not learning, a skill they don't have an won't have. Even though "realistic gunnery" is checked, it is negated by not having any cockpit, which makes it more like practice for watering flowers with a garden hose. On top of the easy settings they go beyond that and ban energy fighting, something that was sort of important to pilots in WWII.......

I was game to try and find something interesting or fun about flying on the server, but I just could not do it as I had become bored of Pac-Man about 1981 or so.
Hopefully over time I can get my friend to see the fun in using IL2 as a simulator instead of a game.

[MaxGunz]

I keep telling that the way to learn flying is to not do it in combat where they have too much else going on.

The unchecked boxes an not just things not learned but learning bad things that take longer to correct.

Still for gunnery practice, a time spent with unlimited ammo and arcade ON gives concentrated lessons per hour on knowing where your shots go. But that can cut you if what you learn is to hang on the trigger and hose ammo.
Same practice with friends, use invulnerable planes but again take care to not pick up lazy or bad habits.

If you go in deliberately knowing the lessons you seek and not turning practice into pure "fun" (turn off thinking and go wheeeee for release as a regular thing) then you can sharpen parts of your game well past what mixed use gives.

[Jumoschwanz]

A lot of pilots are very successful, but usually only in a very narrow range of server settings.

On servers with easy settings you will have someone that has been flying on there for years that is king of that particular turd mountain, but they might go onto a server that has one or two more boxes checked off in the difficulty settings and they are completely lost.

Even a pilot that is really good at flying on hard settings might only be able to handle it if it is strictly controlled. Take the 1 vs.1 specialist for example. They will be able to shoot down 99% of those who join their little game, but if you put them on a server where a lot is going on, that has a big mix of AI air and ground moving along with several human pilots they have to watch out for, then they are going to get shot down a lot because they have not developed the tactics and savvy to keep themselves in one piece there.

It is a simulation of WWII flying if you always have to stay vigilant because you know at any minute you might be bounced from any direction. Whenever you are taking a shot at any other aircraft you have in the back of your mind that the wingman is watching you and approaching to shoot you down in turn. Whenever you get near enemy assets then you are attacked by AAA as well as maybe enemy aircraft, nothing is easy or controlled or certain.

It is not surviving such a server that makes you an ace, because even the best will get shot down sometime on such a server. What makes you an ace is simply being there at all and toughing it out and accepting that whatever happens is part of the simulation.

I know a lot of guys that fly these settings that really are not that good at it, but they hang in there and take it in stride, and I give them all the credit I can over the guys who will not fly unless things are exactly as they want them with no surprises. When I shoot someone down on hard settings and land after dodging their wingmen and the AAA then I know I have shot down an ace and they get a salute. Likewise for anyone who shoots me down on such a server. In any other conditions then I will keep them in the drawer.

[Woke Up Dead]

Conversely, I found that a lot of the gamers that do well on closed-pit servers with big maps are not that good at close-in knife fights. The air-quake servers may not be that realistic, but the people who play there a lot get into a LOT of fights and know how to finish a kill and how to reverse a bad situation. The closed-pit veterans learn that the best way to fly on closed pit is to start with an advantage, surprise, exit plan, etc; so they don't do well when they can't have those elements and are forced to fight it out, like when they're escorting bombers for example.

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

Conversely, I found that a lot of the gamers that do well on closed-pit servers with big maps are not that good at close-in knife fights. The air-quake servers may not be that realistic, but the people who play there a lot get into a LOT of fights and know how to finish a kill and how to reverse a bad situation. The closed-pit veterans learn that the best way to fly on closed pit is to start with an advantage, surprise, exit plan, etc; so they don't do well when they can't have those elements and are forced to fight it out, like when they're escorting bombers for example.

+1

You could use open cockpit to learn a thing or two that are really imposible to learn on closed cockpit. Normally closed cockpit advocates relly solely on surprise to act. And it is far easy to achieve surprise on closed that on open cockpit scenarios. Reality was closed, but this is still a game.

[MaxGunz]

I quit playing Open Cockpit when people used external views of other players to figure out where they are.

Look at all the hotkeys you get when you dump external views. OTOH when you stop using those views you lose a big edge on servers that allow them.

Pick your arena. Some like city, some like country, some like the burbs.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by RPS69

+1
You could use open cockpit to learn a thing or two that are really impossible to learn on closed cockpit. Normally closed cockpit advocates really solely on surprise to act. And it is far easy to achieve surprise on closed that on open cockpit scenarios. Reality was closed, but this is still a game.

This is 100% wrong, a story from those who have not been there.

On hard settings it is true just as in WWII you can have the advantage of surprise, but it works both ways! You are surprised all the time with attacks from unseen foes and you DO have to learn to counter those attacks and turn around fights. There is the gaping hole in the logic of those championing easy settings...

The gamers on arcade settings have their outside views they scroll through, icons and even the silly arrows of open cockpit servers that eliminate all surprise attacks. So it is common sense and logic once again that shows those on easy settings are the ones who never learn to deal with all possible problems.

Of course there are going to be a few hurt egos out there making excuses for flying on easy settings, always have been and always will be.

No, flying IL2 on hard settings is not actually flying in WWII, but it is a lot closer than flying easy settings.

I have flown all types of servers over many years. It is the pilots that are used to using icons, outside views, no G limits etc. that end up stalling and spinning their planes out in close dogfights.
On Skies of Valor I have never lost a 1 vs. 1 dogfight against the regulars that find me with their crutches, they scan through outside views on their map and look for easy targets, and on the ridiculous Fun4All that bans energy fighting and blackouts, they are not even worth talking about.