An appeal to *all servers*

[Avimimus]

Hello everyone,

I have a problem: I can fly a dozen aircraft reasonably well. But all of them are pre-1942 models. To make matters worse, I have little or no interest in practicing on later aircraft.

After 1941-1942 increased power to weight ratios and speeds changed the way aircraft interact with the air and dogfights develop. More importantly, the widespread use of aircraft cannons and the replacement of earlier cannons with high-velocity, high rate-of-fire ones lead to much more abrupt kills.

I enjoy combat in which complex energy management and maneuvers matter - not just who can dive on a target and get enough bullets over it to indiscriminately blow it to pieces. I yearn for combat in which it take multiple runs to shoot down an enemy aircraft, and in which a pilot knows they are being beaten well before they are shot down - combat in which one can gauge and study their opponent.

So my question: Is it possible that any dedicated server could split their maps into two three year sets as an experiment?

1939-1941-1942

1943-1944-1945

I think that, if tried, this may be a popular way of splitting up environments.

Thank you,

-Avimimus

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute Avimimus

I think you might find that even in 1942, the Spit V's can take off a wing with a single burst. The 190A4's can do the same even easier. Even in 1940, the 109E4 can dewing pretty much any aircraft with a two second shot placed accurately. And the aircraft with a 20mm in hte nose, like the F4's and Yaks are pretty powerful too. Unless you are flying 109F2's versus MiG-3's it is a dangerous world...

Are you the Avimimus who used to build COOP missions?

In any case, if you are looking for a 1942 enviroment to fly for the next 6-8 weeks, RAF74 is holding an online COOP campaign entitled OPERATION JUBILEE, re-enacting the Dieppe Raid, and we are welcoming individuals and smaller Squads to participate. At the moment, besides RAF74, we have II/JG1, WingWalkers, Redwulf and 2Gvsap. There is room on the Allied and German sides.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

Hello everyone,

I have a problem: I can fly a dozen aircraft reasonably well. But all of them are pre-1942 models. To make matters worse, I have little or no interest in practicing on later aircraft.

After 1941-1942 increased power to weight ratios and speeds changed the way aircraft interact with the air and dogfights develop. More importantly, the widespread use of aircraft cannons and the replacement of earlier cannons with high-velocity, high rate-of-fire ones lead to much more abrupt kills.

I enjoy combat in which complex energy management and maneuvers matter - not just who can dive on a target and get enough bullets over it to indiscriminately blow it to pieces. I yearn for combat in which it take multiple runs to shoot down an enemy aircraft, and in which a pilot knows they are being beaten well before they are shot down - combat in which one can gauge and study their opponent.

So my question: Is it possible that any dedicated server could split their maps into two three year sets as an experiment?

1939-1941-1942

1943-1944-1945

I think that, if tried, this may be a popular way of splitting up environments.

Thank you,

-Avimimus

Personally I would have been much happier if instead of IL2 1946 we had moved back the other way and got the Spanish Civil War and various other small conflicts throughout the 1930's.

An IL2 with Hawker Furies and Letov S328s and the Swordfish and Avia B534s and Gloster gauntlets and Grumman F3Fs and 109E3s and Ds and flyable versions of the MBA and U2 and otehr non flyable early war stuff would have been awesome.

Unfortunately the online crowd will always push for later war and more power and speed and hastle for rare high performance prototypes of their favorite rides whilst the average marketing whizz kid is going to prefer something more swish like "secret Luftwaffe prototypes" to sell. Sad but cannot be helped.

[Thunderbolt56]

I-16 type-24's can ruin an Emils day in very short order too. I-153's too. Those early shvak-armed slowpokes are vicious killers.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

Salute Avimimus

I think you might find that even in 1942, the Spit V's can take off a wing with a single burst. The 190A4's can do the same even easier. Even in 1940, the 109E4 can dewing pretty much any aircraft with a two second shot placed accurately. And the aircraft with a 20mm in hte nose, like the F4's and Yaks are pretty powerful too. Unless you are flying 109F2's versus MiG-3's it is a dangerous world...

Are you the Avimimus who used to build COOP missions?

In any case, if you are looking for a 1942 enviroment to fly for the next 6-8 weeks, RAF74 is holding an online COOP campaign entitled OPERATION JUBILEE, re-enacting the Dieppe Raid, and we are welcoming individuals and smaller Squads to participate. At the moment, besides RAF74, we have II/JG1, WingWalkers, Redwulf and 2Gvsap. There is room on the Allied and German sides.

Thank you for the invitation, I will certainly consider it. Yes, I do miss the days of Bf-109F2 vs. Mig-3 (rather than the main option being 1944 Normandy...) Dieppe has a special place in my psych (as a Canadian).

I've been around for a long time, I don't recall making co-op missions though (or encountering a doppleganger)

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Personally I would have been much happier if instead of IL2 1946 we had moved back the other way and got the Spanish Civil War and various other small conflicts throughout the 1930's.

I would have gone for an SCW scenario too. There are so many counter-factual scenarios possible from that time period... I did try creating an experimental Luft'36 style dogfight map.

It is actually quite exotic when you remove cannons, the TB-3 becomes a flying fortress which requires all of one's ammunition to bring down, the Il-2T becomes a bomber destroyer and the 1st generation monoplanes become energy fighters... - a new experience for me at least.

Side 1 (I-153M62, I-16type18, Il-2T, TB-3_4M-17, P_11c)
Side 2 (TB-3_4M-34R_SPB, Ju-87B-2, Ki-27-Ko, Ki-27-Otsu, J8A, CR_42)
The file is still available if anyone wants it...

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt56

I-16 type-24's can ruin an Emils day in very short order too. I-153's too. Those early shvak-armed slowpokes are vicious killers.

While its true that fairly modern armaments exist in 1942 (Fw-190, Spit V, P-40 etc.) and that cannons were widespread by 1941 there are a number of factors influencing their use.

Maneuvering:
- the relatively lower speeds mean that there is less of a tendency to enter into high speed stalls and thus allows more evasive maneuvering.
- air combat tended to take place at closer ranges (due to lower powered engines, aircraft don't separate as readily) - this means that an aircraft "crossing the beam" at a given speed will tend to cover more degrees per second (making relative position and maneuvering more important).

The weapons:
- the early cannons, such as the MG-FF, lack the rate of fire and muzzle velocity to quickly project firepower at a given range. This means that they need to be able to concentrate the fire of a longer burst on a target to be effective.
- the lethality of a single MG-151 or ShVAK is impressive but it is also considerably less than that of a MK-108 or twin ShVAK. So, a Lagg/Yak/109F still takes a considerable burst to be certain of bringing down its target.

All of these factors change the geometry of combat, as well as result in a smaller "cone of death" for most cannon and heavy machine gun armaments. So, I would argue that there is a significant change in air combat between the two halves of the war. In short a I-16/24 can easily destroy a Bf-109, but only if it can somehow get close enough and in the right position to prevent the German pilot from maneuvering out of the effective range of the guns.

So, if anyone knows of any servers with pre-1942 maps or if any server would like to try having one evening a week in which the maps are early war... it might be an interesting experiment. Of course, SoW:BoB will initially be like that anyway...

[JG27CaptStubing]

It's not the plane it's the pilot... I can appreciate your perspective however I don't really agree with it. The lethality does go up with cannons but that doesn't make the ealier planes that much less lethal. A good burst with any weapon in the game can cause a catastrophic failure.

Olegs Green lazers are great for setting any plane on fire...

[IceFire]

The problem is that a 1940-1942 server would probably be empty. The late war aircraft are powerful enough that the average pilot can get themselves out of trouble a little bit quicker and the armament is powerful enough that they might get lucky and spray the target with enough lethal lead to make it count.

Thats not to say that you can't do the same with a 109E-4 against a Yak and dewing it just as quickly...but it feels allot better with the big explosions from a 30mm or four 20mms.

I do like the early war battles allot but I get bored with just one scenario...I like a mix and thats what a few servers are willing to give me. But I think if a server were to specialize in early war only...it'd be empty most of the time.

I'd suggest flying somewhere where they do have the kinds of scenarios you like and quite honestly learn to like the other scenarios for their own reasons. There are scenarios that I didn't like...including all of the eastern front when I started with IL-2 (but the demo was good so I learned) but now I have allot of fun there. I might have more fun in the mid war low level battles on the east than anywhere else actually. Thats my suggestion...take it or leave it as you wish

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The problem is that a 1940-1942 server would probably be empty. The late war aircraft are powerful enough that the average pilot can get themselves out of trouble a little bit quicker and the armament is powerful enough that they might get lucky and spray the target with enough lethal lead to make it count....

I love late war scenario the most. The only thing there I can't stand is mk108 and everyone on blue team using it. Whenever I see this I go flying elswhere.

There are many servers featuring early war maps. And with limits on weapon loadouts. UK dedicated being one of them.

[KG26_Alpha]

Just for a change......................

Why not try Our dedicated bomber server in the Hyperlobby.

Its there to practice formation bomber flying and high altitude bomb runs.

Some maps have ground attack but 75% are altitude bomb runs.

Bombs_Away

With on line stats to see how you are progressing, its a fun server with maps of varying difficulty.

Server
http://www.bombs-away-stats.ath.cx/

Website/forum
http://www.ikg26.ath.cx/

Have fun