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Pilot's Lounge Members meetup

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  #1  
Old 10-05-2012, 06:14 PM
buddye buddye is offline
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Default Managing after a failure

I have some two very bitter and disappointing experiences with software system failure. When I worked on FAA's Reroute Air traffic Control System, the FAA told us to take our system out of the Chicago Air Traffic Control center and to start over planning and writing requirements.

Also when BOBII was released in 2005, BOBII was considered a failure at least by me and many other players.

I now consider both the FAA and BOBII a success because new management software procedures and stronger testing (unit , subsystem, and system), and smaller incremental development.

To correct a system failure, requires a new management approach who will focus on a strong software development process, enforced priorities, and a stronger testing approach. The development plan must also take smaller incremental steps that can be tested, released for testing to a strong volunteer beta test group.

Without a change in management approach and focus there is a good chance that history will repeat itself on the new BOM System.

I do wish 1C the very best of luck on both the quality and profit of BOM.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:53 PM
Chivas Chivas is offline
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I agree with some of your assessment, but Maddox Games did just fine developing the original series, with a working game engine. The problem with this development is the unfinished game engine which they are trying to fix and finish which exacerbates every other problem with the sims content and features. If the development could have waited until the game engine was working before release we would never have seen such a clusterfk. There would still have been problems, but certainly not to the extent we have witnessed. Hopefully most of the glaring issues will be addressed by the Sequels release and they can continue developing theaters without it being a Keystones Cops Fire Drill.

P.S. for those that suggest that it isn't the same development team, you would be mostly wrong, as much of the same development team is still intact.
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  #3  
Old 10-05-2012, 07:08 PM
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Mysticpuma Mysticpuma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddye View Post
I have some two very bitter and disappointing experiences with software system failure. When I worked on FAA's Reroute Air traffic Control System, the FAA told us to take our system out of the Chicago Air Traffic Control center and to start over planning and writing requirements.

Also when BOBII was released in 2005, BOBII was considered a failure at least by me and many other players.

I now consider both the FAA and BOBII a success because new management software procedures and stronger testing (unit , subsystem, and system), and smaller incremental development.

To correct a system failure, requires a new management approach who will focus on a strong software development process, enforced priorities, and a stronger testing approach. The development plan must also take smaller incremental steps that can be tested, released for testing to a strong volunteer beta test group.

Without a change in management approach and focus there is a good chance that history will repeat itself on the new BOM System.

I do wish 1C the very best of luck on both the quality and profit of BOM.
Let's hope we see some momentum with BoB...there needs to be something done to make us 'believe' that the future looks bright!

Good to see you Buddeye...ever thought about BoBIII ? Just license the WoP engine from Gaijin and honestly your AI will do the rest
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:40 PM
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JG52Krupi JG52Krupi is offline
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Why the WoP engine? Its a load of rubbish, just visuals and bugger all else...
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:05 PM
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SiThSpAwN SiThSpAwN is offline
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Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
Why the WoP engine? Its a load of rubbish, just visuals and bugger all else...
It would be silly now for them to dump this game engine with all the time invested in it now, and compared to other sims out there right now you would be hard pressed to find one that is as complete and detailed, just looking at little details that people like to over look. We will see what Eagle Dynamics pulls out with their new Game Engine, but right now, a completed and refined IL2:CoD Game Engine can be a wonderful thing...
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:26 PM
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JG52Krupi JG52Krupi is offline
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Originally Posted by SiThSpAwN View Post
It would be silly now for them to dump this game engine with all the time invested in it now, and compared to other sims out there right now you would be hard pressed to find one that is as complete and detailed, just looking at little details that people like to over look. We will see what Eagle Dynamics pulls out with their new Game Engine, but right now, a completed and refined IL2:CoD Game Engine can be a wonderful thing...
I agree, pity that some here are too busy looking at the shiny things than looking at the amazing level of detail that has been put into the models.

Hopefully we will not be losing these features in the next game.
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Its a glass half full/half empty scenario, we all know the problems, we all know what needs to be fixed it just some people focus on the water they have and some focus on the water that isnt there....
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  #7  
Old 10-05-2012, 09:44 PM
MadBlaster MadBlaster is offline
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Someone else ask the question. I just can't do it.
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:07 AM
FS~Phat FS~Phat is offline
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Originally Posted by JG52Krupi View Post
Why the WoP engine? Its a load of rubbish, just visuals and bugger all else...
Dont be so quick to dismiss it. Im also a War Thunder beta tester and I can tell you that while it doesnt have the fidelity of IL2 / CLOD DM and FM it is a lot better than WoP was and the game play is very enjoyable even for a beta.

Its about the overall gameplay experience at the end of it all... and Oleg spent too much time trying to simulate individual rivets and the like instead of balancing visual/FM/DM aspects with gameplay. War Thunder is a pretty complete package as far as gameplay goes and thats while its still at Beta. So it will only get better as they refine the damage and flight models and add more content.

The unfortunate thing with Clod was that the game engine in its various guises didnt deliver so they have been chasing their tail since 2009. From a DM and FM perspective Im sure it is still more detailed than War Thunder will ever be, but at the expense of visuals, gameplay, stability and performance. Luthier needs to readdress the balance of gameplay/visuals/performance vs FM/DM for the sequel. He knows this and has commented as such to my question about balancing gameplay/visuals with realism.

Its a game after all and not a static model where we count each individual rivet and wing spar. We want to experience a bigger world and re-live the 1940's from a pilots perspective with nice graphics and compelling game play.

If I had to sacrifice some elements in order to get a better overall experience here's how id rate importance and my evaluation of CLODs attainment out of 5. (peoples opinions will vary but im sure you'll see what im getting at)

#1 Immersion - 2 (what immersion?)
#2 Flight Model -3.5 (good but not up to 1946 standards overall)
#3 Gameplay - 2.5 (very average)
#4 Graphical representation of aircraft models - 5 (miles ahead of 1946 and anything else)
#5 Graphical representation of game world (water, land, trees, buildings, objects) - 3 (dont see it as any better than 1946 and this was one of the biggest failings of the graphics engine)
#6 Damage Model - was 5 but has gone backwards to 3.5 in the latest patches at least visually anyway
Equal #6 AI - 3 from a flying perspective and a 1 from a AI commands perspective. (im an online player mostly and if I was more into offline this would be ranked #3)

So as you can see there is a lot to balance and thats just from my own personal perspective. Oleg focussed too much on the plane models and their graphical rendering and damage model virtually at the expense of everything else. Nice models with individual rivets and spars that can be damaged dont alone create an immersive WW2 simulation.

Last edited by FS~Phat; 10-11-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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