Throwing some light on rates of turn

pstyle · #1 05-21-2012, 10:40 AM

Hi all,

Had an interesting encounter on ATAG over the weekend.

I was in a Spit IIa

Was running about 200-230mph when I got bounced by a 109 at about 2,000ft. We both got low and slow fairly quickly. 109 was on my tail following me in a turn. Due to the already low speed, I dropped flaps and pulled round in a max rate.

For the first time in this game, I saw the 109 stay with me all the way around in the turn, for at least two full revolutions. He matched me for speed and turn rate. Both when I had flaps down, and when I had them up.

I think I stalled and got clobbered soon after. But I don't have the server info window on, so I could not see who it was. (I suspect Mr.X - he was online at the time)

Bravo to whoever that was.

I will never ever listen to anyone who complains about the Spit2a being "too maneuverable" anymore. Whoever was flying that 109 demonstrates that the 109 can stay with the Spit2a in a max-rate turn.

6S.Manu · #2 05-21-2012, 11:14 AM

Turning with a Spitifire at 2,000ft while having a good K/D ratio is not possible.

I really don't think he was Mr.X, nor your enemy was a good pilot.

pstyle · #3 05-21-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Turning with a Spitifire at 2,000ft while having a good K/D ratio is not possible.

NOT possible?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

I really don't think he was Mr.X, nor your enemy was a good pilot.

Are you saying that he was a bad pilot for being able to turn with me?
I know it might be a bad tactical mistake (trying to turn with a spit) but that assumes the 109 cannot match the turn. This 109 did match the turn. And, of course, he had enough power to get away afterwards....

6S.Manu · #4 05-21-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstyle

NOT possible?

Are you saying that he was a bad pilot for being able to turn with me?
I know it might be a bad tactical mistake (trying to turn with a spit) but that assumes the 109 cannot match the turn. This 109 did match the turn. And, of course, he had enough power to get away afterwards....

Running cicles at sea level is going to kill the pilot soon or later, of course depending on the territory over which he's flying.

Now if the 109 was over his own territory, then ok, he can try to turn with the Spit (but then I ask why the Spit was in that awful position), otherwise it's a suicidal tactic.

IIRC Mr.X has a great K/D ratio, that mean he is not going to do those mistakes.

pstyle · #5 05-21-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Running cicles at sea level is going to kill the pilot soon or later, of course depending on the territory over which he's flying.

Now if the 109 was over his own territory, then ok, he can try to turn with the Spit (but then I ask why the Spit was in that awful position), otherwise it's a suicidal tactic.

IIRC Mr.X has a great K/D ratio, that mean he is not going to do those mistakes.

OK, I see what you're saying. Has anyone actually ever shot MRX down?

I'd still like to know how this person got the 109 to turn like that though... first time I've ever seen one keep up in the turn.

drewpee · #6 05-21-2012, 12:53 PM

The only way you can make any sort of assessment on ac characteristics is to fly both with similar skill. I do fly both but am a better 109 pilot than spit/hurry. After the patch its harder to get a kill, red and blue. If you can get hits on a 109 in a extended dog fight that end low the spit will get the kill when the 109 stalls and hits the deck.
It's so dangerous to turn in the 109 now with it's new stall habits. Once in a stall it takes a hell of a lot of hight to recover (like five times more than before). After flying blue with limited success switched to red when they were out numbered. I felt sorry for the 109 pilots as all you have to do when he gets you in range is turn and he just can't. If he slows to match your turn he is as good as dead. Either he'll stall to the ground or you'll out turn him in just 1 turn and be on his 6.
As I said this is what I have found and there is always exceptions.

CaptainDoggles · #7 05-21-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstyle

I was in a Spit IIa

Was running about 200-230mph when I got bounced by a 109 at about 2,000ft. We both got low and slow fairly quickly.

You were at 230 mph at 2000 feet, and you say that you "got" low and slow? Sorry to say that 230 mph and 2000 feet is already low and slow to begin with.

Quote:

I dropped flaps and pulled round in a max rate.

Edit: Not to mention that deploying flaps will DECREASE your turn rate, not increase it. How can you be sure you were at max turn rate? I'd bet that you weren't. Min radius is not the same as max rate.

Al Schlageter · #8 05-21-2012, 05:05 PM

You must have been really slow as the airbrakes, err flaps, have to up above 120mph.

gimpy117 · #9 05-21-2012, 05:35 PM

I think the spit pilots are afraid of my G.50. Already Dropping flaps the minute they see an axis aircraft

JTDawg · #10 05-21-2012, 05:55 PM

To the question has anybody shot down Mr X , Yes i have! several other 71st, jeepy several times an i'm sure others have to ,but it only happens if your wing man tacktics are good. We have a little saying at 71st ,How many 71st does it take to shoot mr x down we found the number was 6 lol