New docs on Pearl Harbor attack emerge

[Sternjaeger II]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...164032040.html

Apparently Roosevelt had been informed two days before the attack of such possibility.
From the article:"The memo comes from Craig Shirley's new book, December 1941: 31 Days that Changed America and Saved the World, which also reports that the Japanese were building a network of spies through their U.S. embassies and consulates. However, Shirley doesn't blame FDR for failing to act on the memo; instead, he compares the Roosevelt administration's inaction to the executive branch's failure to act on pre-9/11 intelligence."

...interesting comparison, isn't it?

[=CfC= Father Ted]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

However, Shirley doesn't blame FDR for failing to act on the memo; instead, he compares the Roosevelt administration's inaction to the executive branch's failure to act on pre-9/11 intelligence."

...does he then go on to say, "And DO call me Shirley"?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Shirley he can't be serious?

[Scarecrow]

I've heard of this before on some conspiracy show along with other supporting "evidence". I love conspiracy theories, the Titanic conspiracy is my favourite.

P.S. Knowing this place this thread is bound to end in politics

[Sternjaeger II]

well I don't think there's much conspiracy theory going on frankly: this is just further evidence that the US Government was aware of the threat of a Japanese attack.

The situation was dramatically simple: after the horrors of WW1, isolationism was the running policy, but by 1929 the price of such choice was having horrible effects on the US economy. Roosevelt was aware that the only way of boosting the economy was to join the war effort, but was also aware that the American public opinion wouldn't have been happy with their country declaring war on not clear grounds. They needed a pretext, and they probably deliberately ignored all the intelligence related to a possible attack. They probably expected something like a sunken ship or similar stuff, not such a large scale attack, but whichever the case, that was enough of a reason to wage war against Japan, and automatically its allies.

I think there's no "conspiracy theory" going on, it's a theory believed and accepted by most historians, and which is gathering more evidence.. unfortunately historians are not the public opinion, so yes, it might sound a tad unpopular among the average, flag waving US population, but that's how things are.

Truth is that even if they found a tape with Roosevelt's voice which said "hey, we're just gonna provoke the Japs with an embargo and then wait for them to retaliate so we have an excuse for a war", a lot of people wouldn't still believe it..

[fireship4]

I had heard this before also, but is it really accepted amongst the majority of historians? I hadn't thought it was.

Wasn't the japanese capture of rubber (and other raw material) producing countries/areas also concerning/hurting the US?

[Ze-Jamz]

Me too..today was the today gentleman. Whatever the reasons and for whatever cost we can all agree it was a "game changer"

Right.... Can we carry on with the russcies debate.

Sooo.. T-50 radar? Different league? I think so, detecting heat signatures from the engines means your stealth fighter in no longer stealthy.

Do you think the raptor will now or in the foreseeable future upgrade it's radar system to compensate?

We don't have to worry here in the UK anyway. We have the Eurofighter Typhoon! Yay! Lmao

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Me too..today was the today gentleman. Whatever the reasons and for whatever cost we can all agree it was a "game changer"

Right.... Can we carry on with the russcies debate.

the mankind would be dead after a few hours, nukes exploding everywhere....

anyway, strange this cold war thinking , still after 20years.

[badfinger]

And now, back to FDR and some message about the Japanese not liking us.

The US had some intelligence that was passed on to military bases. There was no specific threat mentioned, and the warning was partially based on the observation that the Japanese embassy in Wash DC was burning documents. That is why the planes at Pearl Harbor were lined up wingtip to wingtip, rather than dispersed, so that the guards could protect them from saboteurs. This was seen as the most likely threat. The US had no knowledge that the Japanese fleet was on the way. Given the communications of the day, its hard to believe FDR had anymore knowledge than anyone else on the subject.

Conspiracy junkies just love to take one item, and inflate it into something completely idiotic.

binky9

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by binky9

And now, back to FDR and some message about the Japanese not liking us.

The US had some intelligence that was passed on to military bases. There was no specific threat mentioned, and the warning was partially based on the observation that the Japanese embassy in Wash DC was burning documents. That is why the planes at Pearl Harbor were lined up wingtip to wingtip, rather than dispersed, so that the guards could protect them from saboteurs. This was seen as the most likely threat. The US had no knowledge that the Japanese fleet was on the way. Given the communications of the day, its hard to believe FDR had anymore knowledge than anyone else on the subject.

Conspiracy junkies just love to take one item, and inflate it into something completely idiotic.

binky9

Binky, I think you're focussing too much on the specific date events than on the whole scenario.

The declarations of surprise and astonishment by the CinC at Pearl Harbour are the perfect example that there was not even the faintest idea among them, and the sabotage thing was just a propaganda aspect. Still, a plethora of intelligence wasn't really enough to give an alert state?
I believe that Washington observed carefully and was well aware of what was happening, but they were just deliberately waiting to be attacked in order to have a valid reason that would shock the public opinion.

...and I hate to say this, but it's pretty much like what happened for 9/11..