.303's

[Skoshi Tiger]

I was going to attempt some humour and title this thread ".303's are porked!" but decided against it.

First off the good news is that I'm getting better accuracy in COD (about 20%) than in IL2 (about 5%) and it looks like my rounds are doing some effect. In the after mission report many of my targets are getting 50%-99% damage. But I don't get to see many of them bite the dust.

Unfortunately the lack of sniper tail gunners have made direct 6 the norm and maybe a bit of deflection shooting may get my rounds on more sensitive parts of the aircraft towards the front of the planes?

All in all, I think the engineers at Supermarine need to put cannons on the spitfire!

Cheers!

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

I wouldn't say the .303's are porked, and I am primarily a RAF pilot.

There is a big difference between the Spit and Hurri, the Hurri is far more effective in my experience, more stable and the closely grouped 4 gun batteries hit much harder than the skittish Spit with its dispersed guns.

Also makes a huge difference as to whether you set up your guns right, each gun has to have its convergence set separately, that's 8 guns you need to set, the initial ranges are way too distant for the power of this weapon, you need to get up close and have your convergence set to that distance to do serious damage.

Ammo is also importance, forget the marker and tracers, load up with Armour piercing and De Wilde inciendaries and rock on.

[baronWastelan]

They are more effective than what I am used to in IL2 46. Honestly any way the .303 is modelled someone will complain so I hope Luthier ignores these threads.

[Talon89]

It is frustrating shooting 25% until the guns are winchester and still not scoring kills.

I have no idea whether or not that is historically accurate. If it is, it should be left the way it is.

[JG14_Jagr]

Originally Posted by Talon89

It is frustrating shooting 25% until the guns are winchester and still not scoring kills.

I have no idea whether or not that is historically accurate. If it is, it should be left the way it is.

There is a reason why they eventually added cannons to the Spitfires and Hurricanes.. There is very little armor in Luftwaffe AC in this period.. crew kills are relatively easy... Set up a single mission with you and an He111 and HO the cockpit area.. it will roll right over and go in.. dead 6 attacks go into the only armor they had (seat backs) so any deflection angle will help

[Viper2000]

I'm also quite pleased with the 0.303s.

There are a few tricks:

1. Aim for vulnerable components like engine & pilot because you won't chop aircraft up as you might have done in IL2.
2. Be prepared to wait; it often takes a while for system damage to bring down an aeroplane; oil and cooling systems can leak for 5-10 minutes before running dry, and engines can then run on for another 5-10, followed by perhaps another 5-10 minutes of gliding.
3. If you want to score lots of kills, be prepared to cripple a target and move on to the next one whilst you wait for it to die.

Remember that the objective of the exercise is to remove the enemy's ability to fight, not to generate a TV-friendly spectacle.

If you want a real challenge, try scoring kills in the G50...

[Fragal]

I'm Loading quad AP with a sprinkling of Dewilde's and red tracer guns on the outer guns and inner guns with non tracer AP/incendiary in the rest.

so my spit Loadout looks a bit like this

gun1, AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Dewilde Red Tracer, incendiary Tracer
gun2 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Dewilde, Ball Ball
gun3 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Dewilde, Ball Ball
gun4 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Red Tracer, incendiary Tracer
gun5, AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Red Tracer, incendiary Tracer
gun6 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde, Dewilde Ball Ball
gun7 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde, Dewilde, Ball Ball
gun8 AP AP AP AP, Dewilde Dewilde Red Tracer, incendiary Tracer

The tracers give a nice cone effect and you can easily see your convergence distance
convergence is the same across all guns set at 250 thinking of bringing it down to about 220 or staggering the convergence like badaim (great idea) though the closer you get the better the results.

And i love the 303's they feel right, you can spray all day and not hit anything vital from the rear but from an angle aiming at some vital component like a fuel tank or engine and you hit that part at convergence even a half second burst can be lethal and leave you with some spectacular moments you won't chop parts off unless you hit a fuel tank but you will leave your opponent crippled, on fire or smoking who's easy to finish or you can leave him to have an interesting flight back to base with the likely result he'll be ditching in the channel at some point.

Anyone else hoping for the 12 gun hurri to make a return

[Flying Pencil]

Originally Posted by Talon89

It is frustrating shooting 25% until the guns are winchester and still not scoring kills.

I have no idea whether or not that is historically accurate. If it is, it should be left the way it is.

They are.

Brits tested the .303 on old Blens , and a good percentage of the bullets just bounced off the Al skin.

Quite a few LW bombers barely made it back to France with over 200 hits on them.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Flying Pencil

Quite a few LW bombers barely made it back to France with over 200 hits on them.

IIRC the record holder was a bomber with 1000+ .303 holes in it, and there are stories of whole Squadrons expanding all their ammunition on a single Dornier or Heinkel.

It really matters where you hit them. From what I've seen, creating fires are the surest way (PK is another, but it more difficult to pull unless using a head-on). RCMGs have no real ability to damage the structure, especially if hits are all over the place.. and the gunner and crew positions on BoB era German bombers were fairly well armored, and they had self sealing tanks. Their defensive firepower were not so great, but if 2-3 Heinkels shooting at you at the same time, it can get messy quickly with a lucky hit. Slugging it out with one is also a bad idea IMHO - the Heinkels are like flying tanks, the Ju 88 otoh was very manouverable. The Do 17 is the easiest to be shot down IMHO, as it has neither the robustusness of the Heinkell nor the nimbleness of the 88, but the radial engines seem to be very resistant.

British bombers are on the other side of the scale - they are vulnerable but have relatively good firepower. Still, Blenheims are essentially flying targets. The tail gunner on the Wellington is a problem, but is rather easy to be silenced with the center mounted MGs on Germans fighters; thankfully those are generously provided with ammunition. And it catches fire very easily. I am not sure if it's flyable, think not, but it would be great to have a equivalent of the 111!

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Flying Pencil

They are.

Brits tested the .303 on old Blens , and a good percentage of the bullets just bounced off the Al skin.

Quite a few LW bombers barely made it back to France with over 200 hits on them.

Not accurate.

The tests revealed MANY of the bullets did not penetrate the FRAME of the bomber, but it was dependent on the angle they struck. The bullets were generally effective in doing damage to engines, fuel tanks and personel who were not protected by armour.

Most of the problems with the .303's effectiveness was a function of the convergence which the RAF recommended initially, which was far to distant, and resulted in scattered results. Once pilots reduced their convergence down to 200 yards, the results were much better.

Versus the lighter frames of the 109's and Stukas, pilots found the .303's could actually saw off wings and fuselages.