Why are the cannons so weak on the 109-E, yet so strong on the Russian planes?

[mattmanB182]

Is there a factual reason for this? Or some bias? I am not trying to start a debate, I really just want to know.

The Emile is slow..but a dream to handle. It has 2 MG's and 2 20MM cannons, yet I feel like im shooting spit wads. Actually the same goes for the F-4. From material I read...the F-4 was superior to the Spit MK-IV in most respects....yet I only get kills in the F-4 with well aimed cockpit shots. It only has one cannon..but it seemed to work for the many pilots that it turned into aces.


I know this game is not perfect, and most flaws wont be fixed anyway...I just wanted to discuss the weakness of the armament of the Emile. I am baffled at how 2 cannons and 2 MG's can do so little damage...while an LA-7 with just 2 cannons does not have near as much trouble.

And about the F-4...I thought the cannon in the nose was a 30MM not a 20MM...well either one should do severe damage to anything it hits. It was even mentioned on a "dogfights" episode how just one hit from one of these cannons could obliterate a Mustang..not so in the game, unless I get a direct hit on the cockpit.

Do I have a point at all?

[Zatoichi_Sanjuro]

The E really is underpowered in the game. It can't be bias though as the G6 and K4 are almost overpowered.

[mattmanB182]

Originally Posted by Zatoichi_Sanjuro

The E really is underpowered in the game. It can't be bias though as the G6 and K4 are almost overpowered.

I actually think they are accurate depictions...thos 30MM were VERY destructive.....

[Soviet Ace]

Well to answer the question on the F4. Early F's were equipped with FF cannons that were like 15mm or something? Then the F4 was given a better 20mm cannon, not 30mm.

Anyway, it's well know that the all the Russian planes have more advantage in BoP, than any of the other planes. Whether it was bias, or just not very good modeling; I can't say.

[winny]

Calibre doesn't have an awful lot to do with the comparison. You'd have to know the weight of projectile, % of High explosive per round (if any), muzzle velocity and Rounds per second. Assuming that all of that is accuratley portrayed...

For example the early 109's had 2 wing mounted cannons and 2 nose mounted MGs with 60 rounds of ammo for each gun and fired 520 rpm, the british initially went with 6 or 4 .303 MGs with 300 rounds of ammo for each gun and double the rpm of the german guns, however a 3 second burst from the german gun weighed 8 kg (and exploded on contact) and a 3 second burst from the british only delivered just under 6kg and didn't explode on contact. They started fitting cannons to spitfires in July '40 and the Hurricanes got 4 cannons from '41 onwards.

I don't know enough about Russian guns to say if they are correct but I do know that they were all very efficient. It could be right.

The most destructive cannons used in WWII were the ones fitted to the Me-262, try a training mission in it and see if it brings down a B-17 easily...

[TRC Subaru]

I have to defend the Devs a little here; one of the best overall fighters is the Spit IX, turns with the La-7 but with more firepower (at least in the game). I really like the La-7 but I always seem to go back in the Spit because it seems to have more “Killing Power” although I believe the La-7 should be stronger then it appears in the game.

I am not a munitions expert but I did dig up some facts after I perceived the La-7’s canons seem to be firing faster then the Spits (and other fighters). The La-7 has some formidable canons (ShVAK, 700–800 rounds/min), that fire faster then the Spits (Hispano, 600–700 rounds/min). Although the muzzle velocity is a bit slower and the shell a bit smaller I believe more rounds per minute (about 100 rounds/min) would seem to give the advantage to the La-7 when compared to the spit and other planes using slower firing cannons. I believe in this regard - More is Better…or Deadlier

Data pulled off Wikipedia:

Armament - Spitfire
• Guns: Mk I, Mk II, Mk VA
o (VA) 8 × .303in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rpg
o (VB on) 2 × 20 mm (0.787-in) Hispano Mk II cannon, 60 rpg (drum magazine); (VC) 120 rpg (belt loaded, box magazine)
o 4 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, 350 rpg
• Bombs:
o 2 × 250 lb (113 kg) bombs

Armament - LA-7• 2 × 20 mm ShVAK cannons; 200 rpg or 3 × 20 mm Berezin B-20 cannons; 100 rpg
• 200 kg (440 lb) of bombs

Specifications Hispano-Suiza HS.404• Type: single-barrel automatic cannon
• Caliber: 20 mm × 110 (0.79 in)
• Operation: gas operated
• Length without muzzle brake: 2.32 m
• Length with muzzle brake: 2.52 m
• Weight without drum magazine: 43 kg
• Weight (complete): 68.7 kg
• Rate of fire: 600–700 rpm
• Muzzle velocity: 840 to 880 m/s (2,750 to 2,900 ft/s)
• Recoil force: 400 kg with muzzle brake
• Amunition: Ball, Incendiary, HE (High Explosive)
• Projectile weight: 130 g HE and HEI 168 g AP-T
• HE and HEI rounds explosive filler: 6–11 g

Specifications ShVAK cannon
• Caliber: 20 mm
• Cartridge: 20×99R
• Rate of fire: 700–800 rounds/min
• Muzzle velocity: 750–790 m/s (2,460-2,592 ft/s)
• Weight: 88 lb (40 kg) without ammunition for the wing version
• Length: 66.1 in (1679 mm) for the wing version

I’m sure there are others out there that are much more knowledgeable and I would welcome more information on the subject.