P-38 Stall Characteristics

[Aviar]

We know that the power stall characteristics of the P-38 are modelled incorrectly in IL-2. To see a real-life demonstration, check out this video. The relevant portion begins at 9:15.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=...23/gq_2UmiCoJk

I was just wondering if anyone knows if Team Daidalos is planning on looking into this issue.


Aviar

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by Aviar

We know that the power stall characteristics of the P-38 are modelled incorrectly in IL-2.

Actually, we don't. There seems to be something off about the single-engine torque characteristics, which I believe TD have acknowledged, and may look into at some point, given what has been posted on the Ubi forums in response to this issue.

The only other thing I know about the P-38 FM is that it attracts an inordinate amount of controversy. Whether this is due to a faulty FM, or to unrealistic expectations about the performance of the actual aircraft is open to question. I suspect that if it modelled the historical behaviour more accurately, there would be less demand for 'increased elevator response', 'better roll rate' etc, and more complaints that it was over-sensitive. I'm sure that the poor guys who had to fly it felt the same way, though a good few of them never had the opportunity to complain. It was a WWII aircraft, not a magic carpet. Like any other aircraft of the time, if you mishandled it, it would kill you. If you were unlucky it might kill you even if you got everything right. The IL-2 simulation is almost certainly not 100% correct, for this aircraft or any other. All the same, it is just a simulation. Be thankful.

[Crumpp]

unrealistic expectations about the performance of the actual aircraft

That is 99% of it.

[julian265]

^ Says someone who has flown IL2 once.

Sure, there's a fair amount of griping by new players about stalling and climbing, but there are plenty of legitimate gripes too. The 109K4 is almost unusable at high altitudes due to lack of elevator effectiveness (or excessive forces required) and the P38 shouldn't be experiencing elevator ineffectiveness below 10kft.

[Crumpp]

^ Says someone who has flown IL2 once.

That is not true. I play your game in SEOW once a week for the past few weeks with one of our museum members.

99% of the gripes I read about stem from unrealistic expectations of the poster. It is not a dig that they have no experience outside of a game and a bookstore, just a fact. They read an anecdote and do not any real frame of reference to apply it. Therefore it becomes a blanket claim for a simplistic one size fits all mental model of how aircraft work.

What is even better is when they do this and are hostile about it! Nothing like hostility and ignorance on the internet to get yourself ignored.

[JG27CaptStubing]

I would say generally speaking most of the guys playing IL2 don't have experience in any of the planes in the game...

[EAF331 Starfire]

Quote:
unrealistic expectations about the performance of the actual aircraft

Originally Posted by Crumpp

That is 99% of it.

Like people complaining about the warwinning P-51's turnrate

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by EAF331 Starfire

Like people complaining about the warwinning P-51's turnrate

The P-51 was not a "war-winner", the war was already won when it came into use in any numbers at the beginning of 1944. By this time the large part of the Luftwaffe's aircraft and best pilots were gone, not to mention that Germany was a small country with very limited resources and never had anywhere near the number of aircraft that the allies had.

The P-51 did well when it finally did get to the war because of these factors, and because it was supported by a wingman and it's squadron. A lone pilot in a P-51 did not fly over the channel and start shooting down "Gerries" right and left.

Chuck Yeager said in his book that pilot with the most experience will always win, no matter what they were flying, and by 1944 Germany was out of experience pilots....

Thinking the P-51 was a war-winner is Fanboy talk...

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

It was nethertheless a plane with very good performance for its time and - much more important - able to escort the bomber formations to their target and back.