King's Bounty, Homm5 Love CHild

Zechnophobe · #1 12-04-2009, 03:56 AM

While I do absolutely adore King's Bounty, there were still some concepts from Heros5 that I think were done better. I also have some opinions on the way the game in general works that I'd love to see changed. Here goes.

1) HOMM5 has a fluid turn system, instead of a fixed one. That means that units with higher initiative actually get to perform more actions than those with lower initiative. Your Hero was the same, in that he'd get an action every certain amount of time, and could always at least ride out and do a little damage. This was a really nice system that allowed for a lot of interesting balance.

2) As much as I like King's Bounty, I am getting a little tired of using the same units in most games, because other ones just aren't available. You always start in a human city, with human troops, and a few snakes, nearby to recruit. You never have any real dynamic choices early on in troop composition. Inquisitors, bowmen, king snakes... this list sounding familiar to anyone yet? Instead of starting in the same position in each game, and have a 'set' route through the game, I think it would be much more interesting if it varied.

3) I think reinforcement slots is a good idea, but let's take it a step further. Instead of having a fixed limit to the number of troops you can recruit and have in your army, instead allow the player to buy stacks of any size, but when combat starts only the amount the leadership allows for will actually enter combat. You can keep stocked on troops for as long as you want, without having to make boring trips back to the remote locations you found Evil Beholders, and you also don't have to micromanage your stacks as much when you level up or find leadership flags!

4) Tavern's are cool in this game, in that they tend to have an interesting assortment of troops. But wouldn't it be even cooler if they would restock every now and then? You go check the tavern and find it has a good number of some rare troop, if 3) has been done, you could buy an ample number of them now. Later on, people move, travellers from distant lands come, and now different mercenaries are there for hire. Adds more consistent excitement over these types of buildings.

5) You ever try out a big stack of some unit, only to find out it wasn't as good as you thought? It would be nice if you could do... SOMETHING with troops that you didn't want anymore, to recoup the losses. Sell into slavery, sacrifice to a demon god, whatever.

6) Another cool thing that was done in Homm5 (And other Homm games) is the existence of units of variable size. King's Bounty has a lovely strategic feel already due to the complex pathing and placement of troops, and I think units that are fundamentally larger than others would add a cool new layer to it, that is elegant and easy to understand. It would also be nice to see 'big' units like a black dragon take up more space than 'little' ones like a dragonfly or fairy.

7) Another nice Hero's line effect is building buildings in towns that give your hero's interesting static bonus'. For instance, necromancer's gaining increased necromatic power. I'd like to see more map objects that give things that are interesting, and not just 'rage/mana/stats' . Most interesting rewards end up being items that compete for space. Why not Titles that give us other interesting bonus'?

Lastly, I'd like to see SOME kind of 'fast action' gameplay option. This I draw more from games like Spectromancer, where you can easily pick up and play. Imagine a setting where you get a random hero and army, and face off against a different random hero and army. Etherlords 2 also did this nicely. So you don't have to sit down and play the entire epic campaign if you get a hankering for a little KB.

Direwolf · #2 12-04-2009, 04:33 AM

Zechno,

Some really good thoughts there...i really didn't see anything that i wouldn't endorse. Thanks for taking the time to capture your thoughts.

cheers,
DW

lauvhk · #3 12-04-2009, 06:33 AM

Nice idea.

Quick thought on 7. I remember back in Might & Magic (4&5, 7), you party can own a castle. I can't remember what you can actually do with your castle back then but it can nicely adapt to the HOMM style gameplay. You may win the castle by contest or by achieving nobility.

Mandea · #4 12-04-2009, 06:41 AM

as a matter of face I love KB much more than HOMM, even with its shortcomings. if homm6 doesn't take some ideas from KB, it won't be a great game

Elwin · #5 12-04-2009, 07:09 AM

I completly do not agree with point 2 at all ... KB is just that different that you can get any unit early in game with no fighiting ...

Zechnophobe · #6 12-04-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin

I completly do not agree with point 2 at all ... KB is just that different that you can get any unit early in game with no fighiting ...

It is maybe true that you can do that in AP, but in TL you actually had to fight fights to open up new areas. And doing this in AP where you... basically exploit past big fights to open up new lands doesn't really count. If you don't map kite, how many units can you really get? When are you going to get a demon army, or a lizard one? Even an Elf one?

Newbie1234 · #7 12-05-2009, 04:00 AM

1) A matter of taste. I personally prefer the fixed KB system, as we would need a bar showing the turns with the HoMM5 system and it gets confusing. That system works well for an RPG like Final Fantasy, but not HoMM-style fights in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind the Hero getting in a bit more on the action though.

2) I definitely agree on this. More starting options and viable troops would be great.

3) I really like this idea. It's annoying how we constantly have to go back to the outskirts to restock.

4) Great idea.

5) Not really necessary, but not a bad addition.

6) I'm pretty sure that the reason for this is that units of variable size don't work very well on a 3d Hex grid. Boss monsters are an exception obviously.

HoMM3 had units of 2 hexes, but all fights were horizontal in nature. With 3D battlegrounds, it could get confusing.

It works in HoMM5 because they use square grids, but that has its own problems.

7,

Good suggestions

rancor26 · #8 12-05-2009, 05:58 AM

I would love to see mode called something like "Custom Battle" where you could make your army from all units available with many options (money available to recruit units, AI difficulty, class etc.) and then you could choose the opponents army and go straight to the fight

lauvhk · #9 12-05-2009, 06:13 AM

About 1. The morale between HOMM and KB is quite different. In KB the morale simply affects your unit stats. I cannot remember exactly what it is in HOMM5 but it definitely affects unit initiative. When a unit is motivated with high morale, it will gain initiative so that it can act again sooner than it supposed to be. Even prior to HOMM5, morale acts in the way that the unit either receives an instant second move for high morale or completely loses its turn due to bad morale.

So in order to incorporate such element, it will require a significant rework of KB combat mechanics. I am not so sure if it worths the effort.

Zechnophobe · #10 12-05-2009, 06:57 AM

Well, I wouldn't want to pick up the HOMM5 morale for any reason, the KB one is really very solid and interesting. JUst like the idea that you can balance units by how often they go, and not just how strong they are in the raw.