The so called "no-loss" concept (whole game) is wrong and stupid.

[tiberiu]

Somebody wrote on this forum that developers of wotn did wrong to make it impossible or nearly impossible to do no-loss on impossible difficulty. I'll explain why the whole concept of a no-loss game is retarded and should be discarded quickly.

Basically, if one is able to finish a game about huge fights and combats, many labeled as "invincible" and he is able to win without losing anything, this means that the game is unbalanced and poorly designed. Wars have casualties and it's only logical that a fight called "impossible" or "invincible" should in fact be factually impossible to do, otherwise it makes no sense to even call it that way. To be able to win "impossible" fights with no loss is even more stupid.

I'm one who encouraged developers to make the game HARDER, not easier. I'm a smart gamer, I don't need to play easy games. On TL/AP/CW , it would become really boring really fast even on Impossible diff. The only option for one who SEEKS a challange, not avoid it, is to self-impose customized rules such as "use only lvl 1 and 2 units", dont use phantom/gift,stone skin+target on ghosts etcetera.

I'm hoping that WOTN, when it will be patched in order to become playable (as it currently isn't because of crashes and bugs), will finally be a Kings Bounty game where losses are implicit and logical.

There's something to be said. It is quite simply, obvious, that the gamer, the player, should do all that is available to him in order to lose no units. He should not be successful in doing so, though. That's the whole point of a well balanced game.

I discourage people to cry so much about how they can't do No loss in WOTN. Get more strategy. Yes, more strategy and less "I'm just going to reload now because I'm to stupid to play the game as it's intended". Oh, and yea, using broken spells and abilities, does not account for "strategy". Also, reloading 50 times before you are finally able to beat some invincible creep by abusing it's AI is not strategy, is lameness.

[amyndris]

I did say that but I disagree with you. The frustration with WotN is that no loss is near impossible (on the first island) because:
1) You have no troop choices. Unlike KBTL or KBAP, there is no randomness. You're forced into the same troops. There is no strategic decision (how can I build my army?) because there are no options.
2) You can't explore. Locking you to a single island limits your strategic choices because you can't pick your fights and you can't build an army.

Half the game is building an awesome army and half the game is fighting the battles. Unlike KBTL or KBAP, you only have half a game because the army building part of the game isn't really there (at least on the first island). When you're given no choice in that regards, it actually hurts the strategy.

Now, what it sounds like you're complaining about is "All that strategy (coming back with the correct army to tackle the challenges) is making tactics (in-fight strategy) invalid". That's true, but I like the fact that KBAP and KBTL gave you the option to either play at the strategic level or at the tactical level. You ask for "Get more strategy"? You can't. Because you have no options to play with.

[Fatt_Shade]

No-loss was never best option for KB players, since it doesnt offer any award for finishing game with 0 casualties. But from this way of playing did some interesting strategies come : 100% crit all range army (human+elf, or all orc depending), shrek(giant) build in CW, all dragon army, summoning galore build etc.
As you said that game needs to be made harder, it doesnt mean all enemy need to have huge army and enemy heroes to be 10+ lvl more then you. It just need to make AI better (here i`ll mention HoMM3 babies mod for theLegend).
About game being unbalanced check this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaugamela or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae and talk about combats labeled as invincible.

[Mygaffer]

Let us all just wait until this game has been out longer before we assume that no loss is impossible in the first place. I will admit it seems so now but people always find abusable/broken mechanics to exploit as time goes on.

Also, I think most here can agree that the main point of the game is NOT a no loss victory, rather a victory. So the developers are quite rightly focusing how challenging it is to win or lose, not how challenging it is get a no loss victory.

No loss always has been and always should be something for the most dedicated KB players to shoot for, something that is very difficult to achieve at the higher difficulty levels.

So let us all play and see just what is possible.

[Highborne]

No loss is tough with vikings only.

Once you get past Vikings to the old area, Rune Mages + Paladins + Inquisitors = No losses on anything besides boss fights (without using magic).

No losses on Vikings islands would be very tough.

[Totoro]

I sort of agree with OP.

It bothers me how there are so many creatures to hire wherever I go but I never have to hire them because my losses are so minimal. I never have to rely on weak troops.

It would be much more exciting if the game made me worry that will there be enough troops available to hire.

And when engaging in a fight I would rather worry that am I going to win this fight rather than am I going to lose any troops.


Also Impossible difficulty should indeed be renamed to Expert or something.

[BB Shockwave]

I agree on that regard - it'd be better, and more like the original (DOS) KB if you at first could only have access to low-level (1-2) units and gradually get higher level ones. At the same time, you should not face too many high level creatures yourself. Actually, the first Katauri KB game was pretty good in this regard. But in AP... what would make me use Swordsmen if I can get knights and paladins in the next island?

Originally Posted by Highborne

No loss is tough with vikings only.

Once you get past Vikings to the old area, Rune Mages + Paladins + Inquisitors = No losses on anything besides boss fights (without using magic).

No losses on Vikings islands would be very tough.

But frankly after playing No-loss in KB and AP, I am tired of using the same old units over and over again. I did a no-loss on Normal with Lizardmen in AP, and on Hard with Undead in KB, but it is a tedious process, requiring a re-play of the same battles many-many times. Right now, I just want a fun game to play, so I threw out my ideas about no-loss and just try to play the game with different army setups. I still want to try an all-demon army in Crossworlds, and the Orcs and Elves too.

[Bhruic]

I'm a bit on the fence on this one. I think that playing a no-loss game should be possible. But I also think that playing on the hardest difficulty level should be extremely difficult. So ideally I'd say that a no-loss on the hardest difficulty level should be almost impossible.

The problem is that people want challenges in different ways. It's hard to craft a scenario where you can please everyone.

[tiberiu]

As a side note, and a meaningful example, I once beat Hagni in AP while being like lvl 15 or so, no loss, using droids and inquisitors. It took me around 200 rounds to ressurect my army and some 2 boring hours of casting mana accelerator+ phantom on inquisitors. If u wander where did my mana came from after round 20, it came from transmute + enemy chosha summon every 2 rounds. (1 mana every 2 rounds yay).

[Zhuangzi]

I've 'been there done that' playing no-loss Impossible games of Armored Princess, so I can't be bothered trying to do the same for WoTN. And in actual fact, it means that I can relax without having to worry if I lose some units in a fight.