If all units were to compete Wimbledon-style...

Lord Ludwig · #1 02-12-2010, 10:38 PM

who would win?

I suppose such discussion has been done before, but I was just wondering earlier today.

I am not asking for the best unit to do the campaign with, I am thinking about one single specimen of each kind, regardless of cost or leadership, put against the others, without item or skill modifiers, on neutral terrain (no vulcanic or frozen land, no cemeteries or ships). And by day, of course, since at night I reckon the troll would be undisputed winner.

So who would win? A lvl 5 clearly, but would it be the black dragon? Or would the archdemon's fire resistance make him the favorite even against dragons? Or could it maybe be that the archdemon beats the black dragon but then gets beaten by the ancient ent due to the latter one's higher stamina, after which of course the black dragon incinerates the ancient ent who's vulnerable to fire? In this last case a grand slam tournament would be decided by the draw, who faces who first...

Of course all this can be calculated statistically given the relative values of the unit's various parameter's but it would be quite a task to consider everything...

Zechnophobe · #2 02-13-2010, 12:03 AM

Archdemon or green dragon, not sure which. Whichever actually wins head to head, which may be the greenie. Thing is, Archie wins against anyone whose leadership cost is less than his, but also beats red and black dragons. So I think that would leave bone dragons and Green dragons that can beat him (potentially). The exact leadership for those units doesn't come to mind, but I seem to remember archies and bonies having the same leadership cost. Green dragons probably also beat reds and blacks. They have 50% fire resistance, and two no retaliation abilities to one (Target capture rocks Dragon vs Dragon).

Oh, just occurred to me that archdemon also takes no constant poison damage, meaning he may have a good showing versus the bone dragon.

ivra · #3 02-13-2010, 01:05 AM

I got a brilliant idea - at least for a while... The Tirex is the obvious winner because of its Ravenous talent. It could just eat a corpse to restore its health to max. It should win any battle.

Then it dawned on me that the only corpse available was the single opponent it is fighting. So if a corpse ever became available it would not need it after all...

Sometimes I surprise myself with my brilliant ideas

DGDobrev · #4 02-13-2010, 01:11 AM

Hmm, the question is actually quite tough in my opinion. Each unit has another than can be the death of them. Archdemon beats the black and red dragons easily. Against a green, they should still win due to their high initiative (8 vs. 5 for the green dragon), high move speed(9 vs.6 for the green dragon) and higher physical resistance (20 vs. 10 for the Green Dragon). In general, the Archdemon can get 2 free hits against the green dragon before suffering any hits (move away, wait, green moves, archie hits, next turn, archie hits) not to mention that he can outrun the green dragon.

Against a bone dragon, things are interesting. Archdemons once again have higher move speed (9 vs 7), higher initiative (8 vs 6), higher attack and defence (66 both vs. 53 both), and higher crit chance (15% vs 10%). HP's are 766 vs. 790 in favor of the Bone Dragon. Damage is 88-99 vs. 50-80 in favor of the Archdemon, but the bone dragons have 10% physical resistance, while the Archdemons don't have anything to show for against the poison damage.

However, pure math and 2 free hits put the archdemons slightly ahead, if I'm not mistaken. So, in the end, the Archdemon should take the grand prize

Zechnophobe · #5 02-13-2010, 01:53 AM

88-99 is an average of 93 damage, 50-80 is an average of 65. Even if the 93 loses 9.3 damage due to resistance, it is still significantly higher. Now looking at it, I think it really does come down to archie vs green.

ivra · #6 02-13-2010, 01:49 PM

Quick Answer is that the Archdemon wins over the Emerald Green Dragon. The long answer is documented in the attacked Excel file. All calculations are done using average damage (including average crit). So if you do 100 000 battles between these two combatants the values in the Excel file should be relevant.

Oops, I forgot to include resistance. But since the Archdemon has a higher physical resistance than the EGD, it does not affect the result. All calculations are done with 0 in resistance for both units.

Just a comment to DGDobrev's "while the Archdemons don't have anything to show for against the poison damage". I think it does; its Restoration ability let it clean itself from the Poison damage so it never takes any additional damage from poison or fire, which is normally where you really hurt a stack.

DGDobrev · #7 02-13-2010, 02:05 PM

You are absolutely right. I was aware of that, but still, 0% vs. poison isn't much to show for against the regular Bone Dragon attack. Nice calculations on your part, though

I'm certain that something like this should happen. It would appear that archie gets the cake afterall. I really liked your idea of defending with the EGD for talent reload - if the EGD simply attacked, the AD would have gotten 2 additional retaliation strikes, and the battle would have ended up much sooner.