Game Hurricane is 534 lbs overweight

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

I was following my usual practice of flying CoD and testing the planes whenever a new patch comes out when I decided to change my usual practice of flying with 100% fuel, and seeing how the aircraft perform with less fuel. In the process of adjusting the fuel, I noticed how the figures listed for weights of the Hurricane changed with fuel load. Then I did a double take, even though Kilograms is not my usual currency, I am more at home with pounds, it was clear there was something wrong with the figures listed.

I quickly checked the historical documents, did some quick calculations and it was clear. The games Rotol Hurricane (100 oct) fully loaded is 534 lbs or 243 kgs heavier than it should be.

This is no surprise to those who like to fly the Hurricane, the game aircraft handles more like a beached whale than the historical aircraft. It is almost impossible to outturn the 109 in it, unlike the historical aircraft, which Werner Molders, the leading German Ace and the father of the Jagdflieger's tactical doctrine, flew personally in a test with included both the Hurricane, Spitfire and Curtiss Hawk against the 109E. Molders said:

"The Hurricane is good-natured and turns well, but its performance is decidedly inferior to that of the Me 109. It has strong stick forces and is "lazy" on the ailerons."

and

"Before turning fights with the Bf 109 E type, it must be noted in every case, that all three foreign planes have significantly smaller turning circles and turning times...".

In the 'Loadout' screen of the game, the Hurricane Rotol (100 oct) is listed as 3311 kgs fully loaded, that is 7284 lbs. But the actual Hurricane IA with Rotol propellor, Bullet proof glass and Armour plating is 6750 lbs or 3068 kgs.

Below is a document, (courtesy Mike Williams WWII Aircraft site) from a test of a Rotol equipped Hurricane IA. There are two weight figures listed, one for without Bullet proof glass and Armour plate, (6311 lbs) the other for weight with. (6750 lbs)



For more details on this test, see this page:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...ane/l2026.html

The weight the game lists, 3311 kgs/7284 lbs is closer to what a Hurricane IIB weighs, an aircraft which had 12 MGs, as well as the heavier Merlin XX engine with its two stage supercharger. Here is a document from a Hurricane IIB test:



You can see weight listed is 7330 lbs.

I also checked the Spitfire IA to see if its weight is off. And yes, it is, by 107 lbs, or 49 kgs. The game Spitfire IA with Rotol prop and 100 octane is 2799 kgs, or 6157 lbs. It should weigh 2750 kgs, or 6050 lbs. You can see the weight listed in this document, which shows the weight of a Spit IA with Rotol prop, bullet proof glass and armour plating:



More details of this test can be seen here:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

By the way I checked the weight listed on the Loadout page and compared it to the figure listed in the files Feathered_IV had extracted from the game files to see if the figure in the loadout was the same. It is, and therefore this over-weight is being used by the game files.

(Feathered_IV's post here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=34705&page=2 )

I would urge Luthier and the development team to correct the weights of both aircraft, perhaps this will provide some of the performance both aircraft have been missing.

By the way, I also checked the weight of the 109's. By my sources, the 109E3 seems to be correct at 2580 kgs. However, it is odd that the 109E4, with different equipment, weighs exactly the same as the E3, and more strangely, considering its lack of the Cannon armament, the E1 is also the same 2580 kgs.

[IvanK]

For those that delve into the FM code what weight is referenced in there ?

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by IvanK

For those that delve into the FM code what weight is referenced in there ?

Salute Ivan

As I mentioned in my post, Feathered_IV extracted the files and the figure listed in them is also 3311 kgs for weight.

Post here: (scroll down)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...t=34705&page=2

[IvanK]

Doh should have read more intently

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

Haven't seen extracted Spitfire files to confirm the weight listed in the Loadout screen is the same as used in the files.

[IvanK]

Here is the weight summary from the ROTOL Performance trials. Passed on to the devs.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

I also checked the Spitfire IA to see if its weight is off. And yes, it is, by 107 lbs, or 49 kgs. The game Spitfire IA with Rotol prop and 100 octane is 2799 kgs, or 6157 lbs. It should weigh 2750 kgs, or 6050 lbs. You can see the weight listed in this document, which shows the weight of a Spit IA with Rotol prop, bullet proof glass and armour plating:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

No, the Spitfire is all right, ours have armour plates modelled, which weighted about as much, the test you have shown simply does not have armor plates installed (which no Spitfire had prior to the end of May 1940). The so-called "armor plating over the tank" is in fact just a very slightly thicker aluminium plate over the fuel tank (its more like a deflector plate since it can really stop bullets unless they come in a shallow angle), but the aircraft lacks the pilot's back steel armor plates etc.

So the Spit weight is quite OK.

The Hurricane is well off, good spot.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

The so-called "armor plating over the tank" is in fact just a very slightly thicker aluminium plate over the fuel tank (its more like a deflector plate since it can really stop bullets unless they come in a shallow angle)

Maybe you'd like to provide some proof for this assertion?

The weight added for the cockpit bullet proof glass and over tank armour is a total of 434 lbs, seems excessive if the armour plating was simply a thin sheet of aluminum. My understanding it was actual steel plate. I will be checking further references.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

The weight added for the cockpit bullet proof glass and over tank armour is a total of 434 lbs, seems excessive if the armour plating was simply a thin sheet of aluminum. My understanding it was actual steel plate. I will be checking further references.

Maybe you guys are talking about something different? The aircraft tested had so called fuel tank armour fitted already, and the overload condition was still on top of this.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Originally Posted by JtD

Maybe you guys are talking about something different? The aircraft tested had so called fuel tank armour fitted already, and the overload condition was still on top of this.

I realize the test aircraft L-2026 was equipped with the glass and plate. Kurfurst was making reference to the nature of the armour plate over the tank, suggesting it was just thin aluminum and not capable of providing much protection. My question was where his sources for that were, and why the weight was as much as 434 lbs if it was just aluminum.