The MOD mentality....

[Jumoschwanz]

From another thread:

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

I think tomorrow, I am going to release a flight model for the TA 152 H1 in 4.11 that sets specs for it back to the 4.10.1 flight model. I will call this new model TA 4.10.1, but it will be made only for fully patched 4.11 versions of IL2.

If it is too hard for them, then they change it to make it easier......

WD thinks it is going to be revealing something extraordinary because he is flying a 4.10 aircraft against more realistic 4.11 versions? Why doesn't he just figure out how to import CFS2 hacks where they were flying zeros with Corsair engines that shot 500lb bombs out of their cannons? It would prove the same thing.

We are moving on to a more realistic flight sim and it is called IL246 version 4.11m. It has only been out for a very short time but already "experts" on engineering and WWII history are changing it to suit their flawed and twisted thinking on the subject. It is a slap in the face of Oleg Maddox and TD, it is an insult and disrespectful for a group of guys who bust their nuts coding and doing research to bring you the very best WWII flight sim out there.

Real IL2 aces and make do with what is given to them and fly the official patches without resorting to mods, hacks or cheats.

I know that mod pacs bring impatient kiddies lots of new aircraft and sparkly and shiny effects and tweaked weapons to keep them from getting bored while stuck in their cribs, but they are not tested by anyone of the caliber of Team Daidalos, and they are not quality products.

[fruitbat]

2007 wants its thread back.

I see you completely ignored what some of the members of Team D said in another thread though, lol.

Oh, it might surprise you to know that i've been exclusively flying 4.11 since it came out.

[swiss]

lock/delete request sent

[Jumoschwanz]

Talking about mods is allowed on this forum, does that mean that it has to all be positive? Blowing sunshine up someone's skirt? Opposing opinions and criticism are part of free speech and free societies, especially if they are facts.
The last things I have to say on the subject is that if I can learn to fly, compete, fight and have fun using the official patches of IL2 and you can not without using modifications, hacks and cheats, then yes, I am better than you.

And if I choose to stick by the official version of IL2 and back up those who work on it instead of complaining about it and modding it after only trying it for a few days, then that makes me feel better about myself too.

Those who can do, and those who can't use mods, hacks and cheats and will still get shot down anyway... They are not smart enough to realize that the problem lies not with their tools, but with themselves.

Thank you for moving this to the proper forum, the mod forum, and thank you for letting me have my say. I think I am finished now.....

[too-cool]

If I understand you correctly, IL2 should be exactly as it was when it was initially released, anything done to it between then and now is a modification to the original to include Offical Patches or as a lot of user say, and improvement. Changing anything from it's original is modifying it so you are also playing with a modded game. TC


4.11 is a modification of IL2 believe it or not........

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by too-cool

If I understand you correctly,

Apparently you did not even read what I said. I never said anything against the official patches of IL2. So in effect you are talking to yourself right?

Those that were not around to see the fall of the CFS2 online community, and those who were not around in the early years of IL2 when the entire online community all flew the same version of IL2 probably can not see what was discarded and lost so that a few impatient people could have some extra or special aircraft, toys and effects.

The online population on Hyperlobby is way, way down compared to what it was before MODS.

When all IL2 pilots(except cheaters) were flying the same version of IL2, you could join any server and fly with anyone else, all squads could fly and compete with each other, and all the forum discussions were centered around one thing. Hyperlobby would have over a thousand flying on it on weekends and even sometimes during the week. You could be reasonably sure that nine out of ten people you were flying with on any server were not using hacks or cheats. The official version of IL2 was a standard that existed for the community to follow and glue them together.

Wasn't that a lot to lose?

The online IL2 experience and community has been in steady decline since mods have become common. Online population is way down, and even that small population is divided into fragments flying different versions of IL2.

Newcomers to IL2 are faced with not just figuring out how to install the official version of the sim, but they are courted by the various special interests that make up the different mod factions each crowing how their MOD pack is the best, so they have that choice to make, plus more software to install and more bugs to deal with and have to do more footwork to figure out how to fix bugs. This makes IL2 much less attractive than it was pre-MOD.

These same new pilots have no guarantee that they will ever fly with or against anyone that is using the same version of the sim they are, or even if it is the same version or hack, that extra hacks have not been inserted into it by it's individual user. In the old days we called these people cheats.

What was lost was liked and important to a lot of people.

If you go look at any old pre-mod forum banter that may still be in the archives of various websites for IL2, you will see the same arguments that you see now with the release of new patches. This is not good enough, that is no good, why wasn't this fixed or included or why was this porked?

Some of the complainers will point out something legitimate, but most are simply individuals with limited knowledge of aircraft and WWII history, or the specific subject they are complaining about wishing that IL2 met their ideal wet-dreams or matched their favorite Hollywood movie, or they are too impatient to wait for a small team of developers to get to their special interest.

So these people made their own version of IL2, Squads adopted the hacks that suited their favorite aircraft and maps and switched their servers to suit them, and divided we fall.

Cliffs of Dover is interesting and offers hope of getting an online community that is all on the same page again. I have flown it and had fun with it but I really need a new computer and OS etc. to be serious about it. If it is hacked and modded before I get the money together to spend on it, then I will just keep it in my wallet and not even begin with it.

[Asheshouse]

Jumoschwanz -- I presume you do not use mods and therefore have no real idea of what they are about. Why do you waste your time posting in a thread about Mods when you know nothing about the subject?

The online population on Hyperlobby was dwindling before Mods began and has actually increased since then not reduced. Try and get your facts right please.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

The online population on Hyperlobby was dwindling before Mods began and has actually increased since then not reduced.

That's not true, the number of players in hyperlobby was far larger before mods than it is now. Guess that's mainly because the game was five years younger, though, and the interesting question is if numbers today would be higher or lower. But that would be pure speculation.

Nowadays you usually have around 150 players in Hyperlobby, enough to populate about 5 servers, but it's hard to find two reasonably populated servers that actually run the version of the game you want to play. And the there's a good chance that neither of the two servers running your version also have a set-up to your likings. And that, imho, sucks.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

Apparently you did not even read what I said. I never said anything against the official patches of IL2. So in effect you are talking to yourself right?
Those that were not around to see the fall of the CFS2 online community, and those who were not around in the early years of IL2 when the entire online community all flew the same version of IL2 probably can not see what was discarded and lost so that a few impatient people could have some extra or special aircraft, toys and effects.
The online population on Hyperlobby is way, way down compared to what it was before MODS.
When all IL2 pilots(except cheaters) were flying the same version of IL2, you could join any server and fly with anyone else, all squads could fly and compete with each other, and all the forum discussions were centered around one thing. Hyperlobby would have over a thousand flying on it on weekends and even sometimes during the week. You could be reasonably sure that nine out of ten people you were flying with on any server were not using hacks or cheats. The official version of IL2 was a standard that existed for the community to follow and glue them together.
Wasn't that a lot to lose?
The online IL2 experience and community has been in steady decline since mods have become common. Online population is way down, and even that small population is divided into fragments flying different versions of IL2.
Newcomers to IL2 are faced with not just figuring out how to install the official version of the sim, but they are courted by the various special interests that make up the different mod factions each crowing how their MOD pack is the best, so they have that choice to make, plus more software to install and more bugs to deal with and have to do more footwork to figure out how to fix bugs. This makes IL2 much less attractive than it was pre-MOD.
These same new pilots have no guarantee that they will ever fly with or against anyone that is using the same version of the sim they are, or even if it is the same version or hack, that extra hacks have not been inserted into it by it's individual user. In the old days we called these people cheats.
What was lost was liked and important to a lot of people.
If you go look at any old pre-mod forum banter that may still be in the archives of various websites for IL2, you will see the same arguments that you see now with the release of new patches. This is not good enough, that is no good, why wasn't this fixed or included or why was this porked?
Some of the complainers will point out something legitimate, but most are simply individuals with limited knowledge of aircraft and WWII history, or the specific subject they are complaining about wishing that IL2 met their ideal wet-dreams or matched their favorite Hollywood movie, or they are too impatient to wait for a small team of developers to get to their special interest.
So these people made their own version of IL2, Squads adopted the hacks that suited their favorite aircraft and maps and switched their servers to suit them, and divided we fall.
Cliffs of Dover is interesting and offers hope of getting an online community that is all on the same page again. I have flown it and had fun with it but I really need a new computer and OS etc. to be serious about it. If it is hacked and modded before I get the money together to spend on it, then I will just keep it in my wallet and not even begin with it.

While I agree with much of what you have said .. the fact is that this is an old debate that has been beaten to death ad infinitum.

The mods are here and have been here publicly for 5 years and it will NEVER go back to the way it was ... once that happened everything changed.

Not all the mods are of poor quality either. From where I sit, from my limited understanding, the fact that for better or worse one mod group has decided to operate within the parameters of TD while others have not .. for me that makes a choice of where to get my modded sim from crystal. The demise of the population on HL while I am certain may be influenced by mods to a degree, it is also influenced by the fact that this is a 10 year old sim. If I am not mistaken it has the largest community of any 10+ year old sim on the market .. what few there are that are still around.

+1 to what BW said too...

While mods have definitely changed the sim IMO they have improved it as much as they may have hurt it.. Look at this... we have 6DoF in the stock sim now.. and that was one of the earliest mods to come out .. There are so many great mods out there that had nothing at all to do with FMs or DMs or new planes .. and I don't care what anyone says.. The disaster that many, myself included , expected when this sim was modded based on our experiences in other sims DID NOT HAPPEN. Yes there were issues and there probably still are given human nature. No we do not have the security that we once had, but we have a D@MN good product... STOCK... and I do not believe we would have what we have now had the sim not been modded. You are an old timer.. just look at 4.11 and compare it to IL2.. the original... it is MILES beyond IL2. Not only in terms of aircraft and features but sheer functionality.

Personally I prefer HSFX as a mod pack.. I have my issues with some other mod packs and what I have seen with them so I have chosen not to use them .. others think they are the best thing out there.. but we all have choices. I think that incorporating the features that are now in 4.11 have gone a long way towards making the stock sim more appealing ..

People have made excuses why they don't want to fly this sim anymore .. I say if you want the community to be more robust you have to be a part of it to make that happen. I am still amazed at the fact that this 10+ year old product can still make me go wow.

[Asheshouse]

Some things will never (for legal reasons) appear in official patches.