Hurricane & Spitfire control characteristics

[Kurfürst]

I found this interesting report from Automn 1940 describing handling characterisits (roll, yaw and pitch) if the Spitfire and Hurricane at high speed. I wonder how it stacks up with the sim (or rather, how the sim stacks up to real life).

One particular feature that seems to be amiss from the sim is the

a) very sensitive rudder trim
b) very sensitive elevator control
c) Yaw at high speed on the Spitfire (assymetic radiator layout)

I will try to test the roll as well, supposedly it only takes 2 secs on the Hurricane and 8 secs on the Spitfire to roll 90 degrees at 400 mph IAS.

[Kurfürst]

continued 2...

[Kurfürst]

continued 3

[Kurfürst]

Spitfire Mark II Pilot's notes from June 1940, "General Flying", Part 1.

[Kurfürst]

con'd.

[Kurfürst]

I did a quick measurements of roll rates for the Hurricane (Rotol) and the Spitfire Mk IIa. I climbed to sufficient altitude, and then entered a 30-45 degree dive to get the aircraft up to 400 mph IAS, then rolled them to the right 90 degrees and measured the time required with a stopwatch.

The RAE testing noted in the first post gives 2 secs for Hurricane for a 90 degree roll and 8 secs for the Spitfire under maximum effort.

I've got 2.5 secs (instead of 8 secs) for the Spitfire Mk II and around 3 secs for the Hurricane Mk I Rotol (instead of 2 secs)

Conclusion:

The Spitfire Mk. IIa's roll rate is overmodelled by a factor of 3.2 (!!), ie. it rolls 3.2 times faster at 400 mph IAS than it should be.

The Hurricane Mk. I Rotol roll rate is undermodelled by a factor of 1.5 , ie. it rolls 1.5 times slower at 400 mph IAS than it should be.

[Osprey]

OK, that's one speed which is interesting. Did you try it for the 109? Perhaps we should build up this data for multiple speeds post patch at intervals of 50mph.

I'm personally happy to look at this but given your past record you have quite some making up to do in order to prove that you are really interested in history rather than proving how good the 109 is against it's adversaries. Still, I hold no grudges when evidence is properly presented. Could you please advise what your RPM was and the heights from start of the dive? I am not sure how much effect this has but it is at least a standardisation.

Also, do we know if the data is for fabric or metal ailerons? (I haven't looked at the images yet.....)

[6S.Manu]

Since I actually don't play CloD can I ask how much detailed the stick settings are?
You know the response curve could be too low and so the roll rate can be affected because of it... In IL2 1946 any value under 100 made the control response too slow.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Osprey

Also, do we know if the data is for fabric or metal ailerons? (I haven't looked at the images yet.....)

It will be for fabric, metal only started being retro fitted in around jan '41 and didn't go into production on new aircraft until later than that.

[Moggy]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

It will be for fabric, metal only started being retro fitted in around jan '41 and didn't go into production on new aircraft until later than that.

The earliest date I can find for the testing of metal ailerons for the Hurricane is 6th May 1941 at Langley...and that was on a Mk.II. I'd like to know if they were even tested on the Mk.I, so I'll keep digging around.