The Northrop Grumman Issue.

[Fighterace]

Hello my fellow Il-2 players.

Lately i've been trying to get my head around this Northrop Grumman issue as to "How and why" there is limitations imposed on this game as to what can and cant be available in a plain and simple flight sim.

I'm a big fan of WW2 aircraft as a good majority of players on here are and one thing id like to wish for is to fly a F7F Tigercat, P-61 and etc in Il-2 but We can't because a big aviation company say no for some BS reason and it really, really is frustrating to adhere too.

Anyways...My question is this. Is there any possible way that NG can allow IC/Maddox games to be allowed to make these limitations be lifted by at least a petition or something. I mean with Team Daidalos improving this game with every patch they are technically not selling this product so you would think putting in, lets say a P-61, in this game but not selling it on a CD it must comply within NG's rules and etc.

Well, that is my rant for this topic and iif I'm wrong in anything I aplogise in advance as i have a small understanding as to what is going on.

If any Moderators or Admin feel it is necessary to remove this topic I totally understand and i have no intention of spamming this forum.

Thanks for your time and understanding

Nathan aka "Fighterace"

[Xilon_x]

northrop Grumman, and the 'American?
at this point whether the northrop Grumman puts limitations to IL-2 Sturmovik I prohibit the sale of game in the U.S.
because in u.s.a. play whit italian airplane or german secret airplane and swastica is proibited?
mmmmmmm incredible confusion we live in the 2011 and the nation of the world are stupid and have this stupid rules.
EXAMPLE in future ALENIA AEREMACCHI proibisced the publication of macchi in the game is ridicle.

[CWMV]

You can't blame them for wanting compensation for using their creations. But if you really want these planes they are available in the mod community or are being worked on as we speak.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by CWMV

You can't blame them for wanting compensation for using their creations. But if you really want these planes they are available in the mod community or are being worked on as we speak.

Sure we can! 70 year old airplanes that the current company had no hand in designing (aside from the obvious Grumman examples) that were funded by war bonds and government money (effectively therefore in the public domain) ... should be in the public domain.

But that's an argument for lawyers

For all of the arguments about the Northrup Grumman thing there are a dozen other aircraft by manufacturers that aren't so insanely monetarily inclined.

[Fighterace]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Sure we can! 70 year old airplanes that the current company had no hand in designing (aside from the obvious Grumman examples) that were funded by war bonds and government money (effectively therefore in the public domain) ... should be in the public domain.

But that's an argument for lawyers

For all of the arguments about the Northrup Grumman thing there are a dozen other aircraft by manufacturers that aren't so insanely monetarily inclined.

So...what can we do anything about it? Or do we just have to suck it u and move on???

[Xilon_x]

american northrop grumman mantein a secret of construction and production of military airplane? hahahahahahah very very stupid but this airplane are old 80 years ago not have a secret. now today any nation product another type of airplane yes 6 generation of airplane yes 6 generation stealt airpane uav and drone.
ok ok i am italian i not have a secret military this is a new italian military secret airplane.(prototype by ALENIA) SKY-X and SKY-Y.




NEURON

AERMACCHI 346

[JimmyBlonde]

Meh, just model them anyway and screw Grumman. If they want to be dragged through the press for irrationally bullying a poor little games company then that's their lookout.

I hope their share prices plummet, most Grumman planes were over-rated crap anyway.

[Artist]

Originally Posted by JimmyBlonde

Meh, just model them anyway and screw Grumman. If they want to be dragged through the press for irrationally bullying a poor little games company then that's their lookout.

Sorry, wrong: In this case it's 1c and Maddox Games who will be sued and will pay dearly. And AFAIK there has even a contract been signed with Grumman.

So, no way.

Apart from that: Please make a forum search on "Grumman" and you'll find that this subject pops up every now and then and always ends in: "Sorry, no way we could do this."

[Xilon_x]

Northrop-Grumman took legal action against Ubisoft over the unlicensed use of trademarks they own (specifically, "Grumman") on the Pacific Fighters box and packaging. This legal action was perfectly justified.

UbiSoft and Maddox games jointly settled out of court with Northrop-Grumman. However, Ubisoft provided very bad legal assistance to Oleg, regardless of what he has been led to believe and has said. It is obvious his limited english and complete unfamiliarity with the American legal system were both taken advantage of.

The settlement covered the unauthorized use of a Northrop-Grumman trademark. Perfectly reasonable.

Northrop-Grumman, however, took advantage of the situation to also advance their demands for licensing fees to depict WWII era material. This has no legal basis, despite what they may claim. This has been established in court.

Despite this, as they had Ubisoft and Maddox Games at their mercy, Northrop-Grumman also legally bound them to pay exhorbant licensing fees to use any aircraft (or other material) that Northrop-Grumman claimed intellectual ownership of. Ubisoft's legal representation to Oleg presented the situation inaccurately, convincing Oleg that he had no choice or hope but to accept their demands. Regardless of the previous legal veracity of their claims, Northrop-Grumman now DOES have the legal right to demand licensing from Oleg.

The final insult was that Ubisoft, who commited the original infringement (as they are responsible for product packaging, and thus the infringing text on the box), made Oleg pay Northrop-Grumman the settlement.

Heroes of the Pacific (the creators of which, IRGurus, I spoke to personally) and Blazing Aces both feature various 'disputed' aircraft because Ubisoft didn't screw up the box on those and because those developers happened to speak fluent English and thus could fend of Northrop-Grummans baseless claims. N-G did approach IRGurus (who made Heroes), but was rebuffed and did not make further demands.

The settlement also stipulated that the matter not be discussed publicly (since it obviously would show the true colors of two out of three parties involved), which is why any and all threads that bring this matter up are deleted.

The only group who benefitted were the lawyers of a multi-billion dollar defense contractor. A multi-million dollar global game publisher sidestepped the blame and the fine. Ultimately, a dedicated Russian development studio, many of those working on a project for them at the time, those peoples' immediate families, the project's fans, and legal precedent all suffered.

I know. I built the P-61. Kami had a finished B-29 interior. An underway TBF cockpit and a completely finished Yorktown carrier were yanked. Other content that was planned, in progress, or even finished--some of it expensive--was discarded. Some artists who had devoted extraordinary time and made significant personal sacrifices to contribute to Pacific Fighters were never compensated and almost didn't even get acknowledged.

All of which Northrop-Grumman and Ubisoft have demanded be kept secret.

I, however, am not going to take this anymore. This entire post will be permanently saved to another location. I will link to it whenever the subject is broached. If I am banned, I will make sure it is publicly known here that this is why.

Oleg was taken advantage of in a horrible way, by those who stood to lose nothing and who had no support for their demands. We owe him our efforts to correct that.

[Tacoma74]

How irritating