New docs on Pearl Harbor attack emerge

[Sternjaeger II]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...164032040.html

Apparently Roosevelt had been informed two days before the attack of such possibility.
From the article:"The memo comes from Craig Shirley's new book, December 1941: 31 Days that Changed America and Saved the World, which also reports that the Japanese were building a network of spies through their U.S. embassies and consulates. However, Shirley doesn't blame FDR for failing to act on the memo; instead, he compares the Roosevelt administration's inaction to the executive branch's failure to act on pre-9/11 intelligence."

...interesting comparison, isn't it?

[=CfC= Father Ted]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

However, Shirley doesn't blame FDR for failing to act on the memo; instead, he compares the Roosevelt administration's inaction to the executive branch's failure to act on pre-9/11 intelligence."

...does he then go on to say, "And DO call me Shirley"?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Shirley he can't be serious?

[Scarecrow]

I've heard of this before on some conspiracy show along with other supporting "evidence". I love conspiracy theories, the Titanic conspiracy is my favourite.

P.S. Knowing this place this thread is bound to end in politics

[Sternjaeger II]

well I don't think there's much conspiracy theory going on frankly: this is just further evidence that the US Government was aware of the threat of a Japanese attack.

The situation was dramatically simple: after the horrors of WW1, isolationism was the running policy, but by 1929 the price of such choice was having horrible effects on the US economy. Roosevelt was aware that the only way of boosting the economy was to join the war effort, but was also aware that the American public opinion wouldn't have been happy with their country declaring war on not clear grounds. They needed a pretext, and they probably deliberately ignored all the intelligence related to a possible attack. They probably expected something like a sunken ship or similar stuff, not such a large scale attack, but whichever the case, that was enough of a reason to wage war against Japan, and automatically its allies.

I think there's no "conspiracy theory" going on, it's a theory believed and accepted by most historians, and which is gathering more evidence.. unfortunately historians are not the public opinion, so yes, it might sound a tad unpopular among the average, flag waving US population, but that's how things are.

Truth is that even if they found a tape with Roosevelt's voice which said "hey, we're just gonna provoke the Japs with an embargo and then wait for them to retaliate so we have an excuse for a war", a lot of people wouldn't still believe it..

[fireship4]

I had heard this before also, but is it really accepted amongst the majority of historians? I hadn't thought it was.

Wasn't the japanese capture of rubber (and other raw material) producing countries/areas also concerning/hurting the US?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fireship4

I had heard this before also, but is it really accepted amongst the majority of historians? I hadn't thought it was.

Wasn't the japanese capture of rubber (and other raw material) producing countries/areas also concerning/hurting the US?

sorry, I should have said serious historians

Joking aside, the evidence is there, it's down to what people want to believe really.

Apart for the tone of the website (which yes, is a bit OTT), there's a very detailed report here http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHART...315/pearl.html

and another one
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

The best thing is that everything that doesn't comply with the official line of the Government is automatically tagged as "conspiracy theory"

[fireship4]

As long as you don't define "serious historian" as one who agrees with what you believe. Don't take that the wrong way though, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the way you described.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fireship4

As long as you don't define "serious historian" as one who agrees with what you believe. Don't take that the wrong way though, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the way you described.

lol no, my assertion about "serious historians" was made in jest

As I said, there's a lot of evidence, but if one wants to believe otherwise, then there's not much it can be done.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

and another one
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

The best thing is that everything that doesn't comply with the official line of the Government is automatically tagged as "conspiracy theory"

Just quickly read through some parts of that text, if what Stinnett says is true, then Roosevelt must have known. But if he knew, why didn't he warn the naval base? Was it essential that the attack was devastating? Or was he afraid the Japanese wouldn't attack if they got a last minute warning about the new situation on the base?

To me it seems much more likely that Roosevelt and his generals vastly underestimated the Japanese naval power even though Japan was regarded hostile at that point.
I think they thought the base was well able to defend itself when Japan would attack with ships.