Moved from Crystal Ball thread

[Bryan21cag]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Well.. knowing that some with lesser hardware are running CoD fine tells me that there is something about your PC.. Most likely some software setting/config that is causing you to see it more than someone with a lesser rig..

Hmm this is interesting and I would be willing to try it out but since every single other new and old game I have currently runs graphically maxed, out of the box without me doing this I would be concerned that I might start making some of them not work as well by making CLOD run better. I am not much of a rogue tweeker when it comes to settings/configs outside of the game and what im provided by my chosen manufacture though. I am more concerned that I might make a mistake and not be able to un break what i broke For others this might be a good solution though thanks for pointing it out.

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

No not everything is subjective

For example..

bla bla bla.......

SAVVY?

lol im not sure that whole long example of what is subjective was really necessary considering the very apparent jovial jab that I was taking at how many times you had used "this is subjective" in your responses but maybe you are just too worked up for this kind of humor. My humblest of apologies sir for me to even make an attempt at even the most simple of sarcastic remarks was completely inappropriate considering the utter gravity of this thread and It shall NEVER happen again

.......see what i did there?... i just did it again ....... you see when i said NEVER and then went on too.......well you get it right?........ Look! see that guy over there..... he gets it......

Originally Posted by Chivas

You wouldn't happen to have the Epilepsy Filter turned ON would you, and also try turning Crossfire OFF, if on.

nope been turned off since we got the patch where you could turn it off I did try switching to 1 card and got some moderate FPS increase from it but nothing huge and the stuttering was about the same im guessing because they are 1G cards. Plus doing that really messed up my color profile for some random reason and none of my other games looked right and I wasn't able to fix it so I went back My hope is that eventually this game will be optimized for CF/SLI and I wont have to worry about this but time will tell


Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES View Post
And those with top-o-the-line hardware should remember that bad software can bring good hardware to it's knees

hmm hey ACE how much would it cost me for the copy right to this statement?? lol I would like to put it in my SIG

Cheers

[flyingblind]

Whilst undoubtably true that many top games run much better on your systems than CloD I think that is a bit of a dead end. I am no expert and have little interest in all the various FPs, Fantasy and role playing games out there being purely an IL2 and motor sport sim fanatic. But it seems to me that CloD is an entirely different kettle of fish. Nothing else tries to incorporate the depth of working details, FMs and DMs plus multiplayer and all covering vast areas of very detailed maps. Even if the code was fully optimised, which quite clearly it isn't yet, then it would still put a strain on any computer system. The question is - Why is there such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences of people running similar spec systems or even a lower spec system running it better a higher spec one? And the answere to that must lie in the hardware, computer software or the configuration because everyone is running exactly the same code.

[bzc3lk]

Originally Posted by flyingblind

Whilst undoubtably true that many top games run much better on your systems than CloD I think that is a bit of a dead end. I am no expert and have little interest in all the various FPs, Fantasy and role playing games out there being purely an IL2 and motor sport sim fanatic. But it seems to me that CloD is an entirely different kettle of fish. Nothing else tries to incorporate the depth of working details, FMs and DMs plus multiplayer and all covering vast areas of very detailed maps. Even if the code was fully optimised, which quite clearly it isn't yet, then it would still put a strain on any computer system. The question is - Why is there such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences of people running similar spec systems or even a lower spec system running it better a higher spec one? And the answere to that must lie in the hardware, computer software or the configuration because everyone is running exactly the same code.

I think the answer really lies with one's interpretation of "running" or "playability". After viewing many videos online I would not be happy with the current "Runs fine on my system" statement from my point of view, but like they say " what ever floats your boat ".

[klem]

Originally Posted by bzc3lk

I think the answer really lies with one's interpretation of "running" or "playability". After viewing many videos online I would not be happy with the current "Runs fine on my system" statement from my point of view, but like they say " what ever floats your boat ".

Agreed.

The only way you are likely to get some clarity is for people to post their basic specs (processor, RAM, Video Card, OS, mobo, BIOS settings) along with all their GPU controller settings for the game and their in-game settings. Plus any ther variables I may have missed and a list of all other applications and services running at the time. Then perhaps give their Black Death Track fps results and a defined on-line flight fps results. Oh, and add what each particular user expects to get in terms of those results (highly subjective!).

Then pump them into a database where you could pick up identical systems and compare results.

I suspect you are all beginning to think "that's a thousand or more possible combinations!".
I suspect you are all thinking "what are the chances of even finding an exact match?".
Perhaps you are thinking "well if we found an exact hardware/OS match there are all kinds of differences possible in BIOS, background Apps and Services, GPU and in-game settings... etc."

In short, it is unlikely to be a valuable excercise other than to demonstrate that:-
1. Expectations are wildly different, perhaps impossible ("I expect to get 60fps from my AMD 3800+/8800gtx at High settings low level over London").
2. System specs (hardware and their running software/apps) are virtually impossible to compare.

Even when the code has been 'optimised' there will still be differences of opinion over expectations, 'playable' (at what settings?), etc..

The only guys with a definite measurable argument are those with a system that meets or exceeds minimum spec but it won't even start. From there on in it rapidly gets foggy.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

Hmm this is interesting and I would be willing to try it out but since every single other new and old game I have currently runs graphically maxed, out of the box without me doing this I would be concerned that I might start making some of them not work as well by making CLOD run better.

There is that chance.. There are so many variables with a PC.. Hardware and Software wise where one change can make a big difference.. Thus you have to decide how important simulation the battle of Britain is to you. If you decide it is important, make sure you keep track of your changes so you can revert back.

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

I am not much of a rogue tweeker when it comes to settings/configs outside of the game and what im provided by my chosen manufacture though.

Your not alone..

In the early days of PC gaming you had to be a real nerd to get things to work.. Setting IRQ's editing AUTOEXEC.BAT files, messing with the 386mem.sys config, etc. I am actually glad I live through that period because I learned a lot about PCs playing games back than, that base knowledge still comes in handy to this day, not only at home but in my line of work. Over the past 20 years PCs have become more user friendly, such that it does not require a nerd level to play games anymore.. But in cutting edge technologies, like we have with the new CoD graphics engine, which is using the newest DirectX 11 API, the nerd level is required in some cases to get things running smooth.

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

I am more concerned that I might make a mistake and not be able to un break what i broke For others this might be a good solution though thanks for pointing it out.

Take good notes! For example, before I update my NVIDIA drivers, I take screen captures of my current settings in the NVIDIA display.. Nerd tweaking is very time consuming.. You only want to change one variable at a time, than test it.

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

lol im not sure that whole long example of what is subjective was really necessary considering the very apparent jovial jab that I was taking at how many times you had used "this is subjective" in your responses but maybe you are just too worked up for this kind of humor. My humblest of apologies sir

No need to apologize! I didn't provide that example for just you! Others here clearly needed that explanation, even more than you! But you were the one that brought it up, thus I responded to you!

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

for me to even make an attempt at even the most simple of sarcastic remarks was completely inappropriate considering the utter gravity of this thread and It shall NEVER happen again

Lighten up Francis!

Originally Posted by Bryan21cag

.......see what i did there?... i just did it again ....... you see when i said NEVER and then went on too.......well you get it right?........ Look! see that guy over there..... he gets it......

Got it! Did you see what I did above? I am dating myself there.. Hope the STRIPES reference does not go un-noticed!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by flyingblind

Whilst undoubtably true that many top games run much better on your systems than CloD I think that is a bit of a dead end. I am no expert and have little interest in all the various FPs, Fantasy and role playing games out there being purely an IL2 and motor sport sim fanatic. But it seems to me that CloD is an entirely different kettle of fish. Nothing else tries to incorporate the depth of working details, FMs and DMs plus multiplayer and all covering vast areas of very detailed maps. Even if the code was fully optimised, which quite clearly it isn't yet, then it would still put a strain on any computer system. The question is - Why is there such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences of people running similar spec systems or even a lower spec system running it better a higher spec one? And the answere to that must lie in the hardware, computer software or the configuration because everyone is running exactly the same code.

B I N G O !

As I pointed out to addman a few pages back.. Take AI alone for example.. Which do you think is more complex..

1) A FPS bot waiting for a 'trigger' to start shooting at you from behind a wall
2) A flightsim bot pilot that has to maneuver his plane into position before shooting at you

Clearly it is #2

And that is just AI!

Now take ARMA2 for example.. It does a lot too.. But anyone who has played it knows the FMs are very dumbed down

At this point some might point out RoF series..

Not sure if it is using the DirectX 11 API like CoD does? But the RoF graphics engine was nothing to rave about when it first came out several years ago..

Mater of fact it was not until about 6 months ago that they provided a patch that allowed planes to be see at much farther distances.. Prior to that planes would just suddenly disappear once they reached s certain distance.. That is to say the LOD transition did not transition to a dot.. It just disappear.. But now after a couple of years RoF has a pretty darn good graphics engine! Ill bet CoD's graphics engine gets fixed sooner than that.. even without the additional cash flow that RoF gets due to their plane addons

Long story short, you really can not compare a flight sim to any other game IMHO.. Flight sims have so much more going on that your typical run of the mill eye-candy oriented first person shooter or dragon fighting game

[Bryan21cag]

Originally Posted by flyingblind

Whilst undoubtably true that many top games run much better on your systems than CloD I think that is a bit of a dead end. I am no expert and have little interest in all the various FPs, Fantasy and role playing games out there being purely an IL2 and motor sport sim fanatic. But it seems to me that CloD is an entirely different kettle of fish. Nothing else tries to incorporate the depth of working details, FMs and DMs plus multiplayer and all covering vast areas of very detailed maps. Even if the code was fully optimised, which quite clearly it isn't yet, then it would still put a strain on any computer system. The question is - Why is there such a mixed bag of good and bad experiences of people running similar spec systems or even a lower spec system running it better a higher spec one? And the answere to that must lie in the hardware, computer software or the configuration because everyone is running exactly the same code.

To this I would say that I currently play or have played at one point on this machine DCS, crysis, IL2 46 UP MOD, ROF, Might and Magic VI, DOWII, WOW, Star Wars TOR (beta Tester), Iracing, DIRT, WOT, Mass Effect 2, COD, Real Flight 5.5, RIFT, just to name a few. I can play them all with default profiles at 1920x1080 res full settings and the the exception of the occasional crash, freeze or strange flashing shadow in the background my current machine runs these all full tilt. Its quite the mixed bag really.

Any way I guess the argument can just keep being made that CLOD is quite literally the most advanced, graphically intense and ahead of its time game ever invented. Since I do not possess the code writing technical know how to dispute or prove this I will have to leave this statement alone.

I can however make my own educated assumption based on being a life long all around game "Player" Having owned through out my life.........

Console : Systems ATARI, NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64, SEGA, SEGA Genesis, Playstation, PS2, PS3, XBOX, XBOX 360

Computers : Roughly 25. Some Apple and mostly PC computers throughout 30 plus years of life (Father Has been a computer software Sales Rep since I was 5 which means we usually always had 2 computers in the house at all times) When I was a kid they were always owned for his business use, but my rule was very simple GAMES GAMES GAMES GAMES GAMES that was the only reason I ever saw use for them up until I became aware of there full potential and even then there ability to play games always took first priority LOL now that i think of it its probably why I spent 8 years in the military and became an electrician instead of taking over for Steve Jobs or some such nonsense any way ......

First Fell in love with Flight Sims with 1942 PAW and would go on to obsess over 1942 PAW gold, Chuck Yeager's Air Combat, AOE, AOP, Red Barron, Dawn Patrol EAW, CFS1,2,3 and probably many more whose name I can not remember.

None of this means I am an expert of any kind but it does mean that I am not just some random dude that took a quick look at CLOD and decided its code was crap and that was that. I just maintain that When I play all the games I listed above on this computer, with default set up graphics maxed out and none of the type of issues that I currently see with my "players eye" that CLOD has, It becomes very hard to swallow that just my hardware setup is somehow the main reason for my unhappiness with the over all CLOD game experience.

To be fare I did not find IL2 original until very late in the games existence and my first flight in the series was made with 1946 un modded. Knowing what that game became I am very interested to see where this one will be 7 years from now I wonder though if there is that much time before another company possibly takes this genre and runs its attempt up the flag pole to see how it waves and IL2 might end up a Martyr. This would also be good for us all but I digress.

The point is I will not find the answer for myself until time passes. I have made the decision to not try much of the tweaking that people are talking about because as much as I really want CLOD to run well so I might play it, content wise there really is not enough there for me to make it worth possibly harming the way that all the other games I play not run as well. ESPECIALLY my flight sims ROF, IL246, and DCS. Except for Model airplanes this is how i get my Flying fix these days

If in time all of a sudden I update IL2 to a current patch and it runs like a dream I will know my hardware was not the problem. If on the other hand I continue to buy games of all types and they keep running with no issues and CLOD just never does....... well to me that says it as well

oh and one more thing for aces..........

You just made the list, buddy!!!

LOL i loved that movie it was one of my favorites along with spies like us I cant tell you how many times I wished I could strap my big brother into the "Radical Vertical Impact Simulator: ROFL

Cheers