Blow up

Ive been flying a fair bit recently, mainly the 109E3 on the syn full realism server. I have had many victories in the 109 but they are all hard fought, unless you are lucky enough to get a pilot kill you have to do many passes on a Hurri or Spit to bring it down or force it to leave the fight. I have never blown a wing off, or seen a plane blow up. I have sat right behind a spit just under its tail on many occasions and then slowy raised my nose and blasted it at point blank range with canons and mg's only to see the spit pull a hrad turn and start to battle with me. I have tried all different ammo load outs to the same effect. To me it seems something is definately wrong with the DM model.

[Ze-Jamz]

Hmm I don't know mate, this I always a hard debate.

Likewise I have seen 109's take countless 303 rounds and still turn and move like a bat out of hell, it's also hard to remember your playing a diff game from what were all used too an the DM's are miles apart.

I've smoked alot of spit n hurri's and have become a bit of a master at flaming Wellingtons and blennies with the 109's cannon and MG's to be fair but then have taken a beaten from allied fighters and still nursed my plane home.

Has anything been mentioned in regards to the DM's by the Devs? I can't recall

[MoGas]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Ive been flying a fair bit recently, mainly the 109E3 on the syn full realism server. I have had many victories in the 109 but they are all hard fought, unless you are lucky enough to get a pilot kill you have to do many passes on a Hurri or Spit to bring it down or force it to leave the fight. I have never blown a wing off, or seen a plane blow up. I have sat right behind a spit just under its tail on many occasions and then slowy raised my nose and blasted it at point blank range with canons and mg's only to see the spit pull a hrad turn and start to battle with me. I have tried all different ammo load outs to the same effect. To me it seems something is definately wrong with the DM model.

I agree. The DM needs some work, and i guess the know about. I guess the drag of a damaged wing is still too low. It cant be that a Spit or whatever, is able to make a hard brake left or right, with holes in one wing left or right, and the aircraft dosent start to stall over the damaged wing, after you nailed him hard with a E3 for example. I believe it is undermodeled.

Also I never have seen such explosions llike on a BF-109 when the Spit or Hurrie makes good hits on the 109`s engine or whatever is hit.

I fly multieplayer only on the SYN dedicated server, and it seems, that the DM is on some parts what get hit like "wings", are undermodeled.....on the Spit and Hurrie`s.....as well as on the 109`s but even more...

Its my point of view on this issue....

[Vengeanze]

Tree, you should take lesson from the guys in 109 that get headshots on me almost every time I fly online.

[Phazon]

I haven't been able to find any major faults in the damage model testing it offline. The different ammo types behave like they should, armour-piercing is more likely to cause internal damage, incendiaries have a chance to spark fires and HE rounds blow large holes in the aircraft skin.

I would not be surprised however if online was a bit buggier in recording damage. It is an incredibly complex system and I would not be surprised if it still needs some tweaking particularly for the online multiplayer.

[TomcatViP]

Yeah,

Mo gimme me back that skull pieces of mine.

From the headless pilot

~S

[Blackdog_kt]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it honestly. We're just having to adjust to a new standard after years of being conditioned to aircraft with multi-cannon batteries using more effective ammunition and a simpler DM model where putting enough rounds of any kind into a wing root was almost guaranteed to cause a kill.

Maybe the aerodynamic degradation effect of having the aircraft skin damaged needs a bit of tweaking, but other than that i don't think seeing frequent explosions would be very realistic for the kind of ammunition and guns our aircraft in CoD use, even the cannons: unless it's a minen-shell, it explodes on contact with the skin of the enemy aircraft and not inside the airframe, which means most of the shrapnel and shockwave is going to waste in the surrounding air.

That doesn't mean we should expect catastrophic damage once we get a 109E-4 with the right ammunition either, because the MG-FFs are slow firing and the shells have a low muzzle velocity. To put it simply, even if every 3rd round is a minen-shell it's still possible to miss with it and only score hits with the APs or tracers which will have an effect similar to the current ammo for the most part.

Long story short, unless we see aircraft equipped with Hispanos and Mg151s it doesn't make much sense to go spectacular on the explosions. In fact the current weapons showcase the DM perfectly because they allow a longer fight where we can observe the progressive nature of things, with systems failing one after another due to a common dependency or seeing the gradual degradation of performance, etc.

Best such moment i ever had was in a QMB mission a few months ago, i scored some hits on a Spit with the Mg17s and he started streaming a bit of white smoke, most probably a coolant leak.

Something was definitely wrong for him though because as i was ready to roll back into him and dive down for the killing shot after my initial pass, i saw him starting to incur extra damage without me shooting at him. Another streak appeared, this time a thin black one which was probably oil, then after a split-second he started streaming thick black smoke.
Closing in i saw half his exhaust pipes belching flames, he caught fire and went into the drink.

I still think it was one of the most realistic kills i've ever seen to date in any flight sim: coolant leak causing a rapid temperature increase due to high power settings used, temp increase forcing a pressure increase which busted the oil pipes, oil and coolant leak combined led to engine overheating in short order, damage to individual cylinders and fire, either inside the engine or due to gasoline fumes from the a leaking fuel tank (it's located between engine and pilot) getting ignited by the high temperatures caused by the overheating engine.

It was a true cascade of systems failing one after the other with the poor AI guy getting swamped and having no choice but to bail which was a very common way to be shot down too, since not all kills happened due to outright catastrophic damage. A lot of times the aircraft would just become inoperable due to internal systems damage, even if the airframe and structure remained intact for the most part.

From an engineering standpoint it was the single most believable kill i've ever seen unfold before my eyes in a PC flight sim and the timing/pacing of it all made it look just like old gun camera film too.

There's a lot of things that need fixing, but in all honesty the DM in terms of compartments modeled and their interactions/dependencies is almost certainly not one of them.

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Hmm I don't know mate, this I always a hard debate.

Likewise I have seen 109's take countless 303 rounds and still turn and move like a bat out of hell, it's also hard to remember your playing a diff game from what were all used too an the DM's are miles apart.

I've smoked alot of spit n hurri's and have become a bit of a master at flaming Wellingtons and blennies with the 109's cannon and MG's to be fair but then have taken a beaten from allied fighters and still nursed my plane home.

Has anything been mentioned in regards to the DM's by the Devs? I can't recall

I agree mate 100%, its definatley a 2 way street.

[FFCW_Urizen]

Originally Posted by MoGas

I agree. The DM needs some work, and i guess the know about. I guess the drag of a damaged wing is still too low. It cant be that a Spit or whatever, is able to make a hard brake left or right, with holes in one wing left or right, and the aircraft dosent start to stall over the damaged wing, after you nailed him hard with a E3 for example. I believe it is undermodeled.

seems i am unfortunate, whenever my wing gets shred to pieces or receives a minor hole, i am no longer as maneuverable as with a nondamaged wing and being on or offline doesn´t make any difference, neither does the plane. i´ve experienced that on a hurri, spit or 109.
and yes, whichever wing is damaged, leads to a stall on that wing.

[drewpee]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Ive been flying a fair bit recently, mainly the 109E3 on the syn full realism server. I have had many victories in the 109 but they are all hard fought, unless you are lucky enough to get a pilot kill you have to do many passes on a Hurri or Spit to bring it down or force it to leave the fight. I have never blown a wing off, or seen a plane blow up. I have sat right behind a spit just under its tail on many occasions and then slowy raised my nose and blasted it at point blank range with canons and mg's only to see the spit pull a hrad turn and start to battle with me. I have tried all different ammo load outs to the same effect. To me it seems something is definately wrong with the DM model.

+1

It's hard work in the 109. In the past a good 2 second blast will at least disable its ability to be a fret. I hope it's a bad DM and will be fixed. If not I for one need to be more disciplined in my style of dogfighting and not get suckered into a turn fight.