Arcade armchair "expert" debunked.

[Jumoschwanz]

I had a close acquaintance who likes to fly the Fun4All server telling me how aircraft in WWII could not have been as hard to fly in real life as they are when IL2 Sturmovik is set to "realistic".

His argument to keep flying easy settings with blackouts, gyro effects and just about everything else turned off that makes IL2 a flight sim and not Pac-Man.

I sent him this web link to read:


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...FT_The_numbers

[swiss]

http://ww2-weapons.com/Armies/German...e/Training.htm

http://stephenesherman.com/discussio...rman_aces.html

[Jumoschwanz]

Nice articles Swiss. In the end the point is that it certainly takes a little more skill to fly a WWII fighter aircraft than it does to fly on Fun4All server.

I did fly around on Fun4All for a while to show support for my acquaintance, after all I don't want to be a snob.

So I flew around in a fast late-war allied aircraft for a while. I was at a disadvantage because being used to flying realistic settings for the last dozen years I always fly with things on my mind like blacking or redding out, engine overheating, not to mention a realistic flight model and a cockpit.
I kept the cockpit on for a while as it was there by default, but then I turned it off for a bit and it was odd being able to see your target while you were shooting at it in hard turns while not blacking-out, pretty silly and Pac-Man like and surely needing much less skill than on realistic settings.

A few were flying around in Japanese aircraft and they were of no concern to me because they were all either slower, or much slower than my aircraft. One of them started crying because he could not understand why I used my aircraft's speed instead of getting in a slow turning fight with a Japanese aircraft, odd......

I flew around at a few thousand meters altitude shooting at whatever ended up in front of me, another fun4all pilot said that what I was doing was not fair, as if anything on that server matters at all. By server rules you are not supposed to "boom and zoom", so why was my aircraft spawning at 9000 meters altitude? shouldn't they be making these chivalrous morons all start off at ground level? I guess you are never supposed to shoot at anyone who is at a lower altitude or speed than you, only those who are higher or slower? Pretty comical.

The last "gamer" I disposed of I did not even have to shoot at, I simply knew how fast my aircraft could dive and he did not. I did not even have to look back, I just watched the large silly colored pointer on my HUD that signified his aircraft zoom quickly to the bottom of the screen, scratch on La-7.......

And at that I had enough "fun" and jumped onto a server with realistic settings and began doing all those hard, senseless things that WWII pilots had to do, like actually looking for other aircraft and identifying them without having large colored banners and arrows pointing at them...

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

Nice articles Swiss. In the end the point is that it certainly takes a little more skill to fly a WWII fighter aircraft than it does to fly on Fun4All server.

I did fly around on Fun4All for a while to show support for my acquaintance, after all I don't want to be a snob.

So I flew around in a fast late-war allied aircraft for a while. I was at a disadvantage because being used to flying realistic settings for the last dozen years I always fly with things on my mind like blacking or redding out, engine overheating, not to mention a realistic flight model and a cockpit.
I kept the cockpit on for a while as it was there by default, but then I turned it off for a bit and it was odd being able to see your target while you were shooting at it in hard turns while not blacking-out, pretty silly and Pac-Man like and surely needing much less skill than on realistic settings.

A few were flying around in Japanese aircraft and they were of no concern to me because they were all either slower, or much slower than my aircraft. One of them started crying because he could not understand why I used my aircraft's speed instead of getting in a slow turning fight with a Japanese aircraft, odd......

I flew around at a few thousand meters altitude shooting at whatever ended up in front of me, another fun4all pilot said that what I was doing was not fair, as if anything on that server matters at all. By server rules you are not supposed to "boom and zoom", so why was my aircraft spawning at 9000 meters altitude? shouldn't they be making these chivalrous morons all start off at ground level? I guess you are never supposed to shoot at anyone who is at a lower altitude or speed than you, only those who are higher or slower? Pretty comical.

The last "gamer" I disposed of I did not even have to shoot at, I simply knew how fast my aircraft could dive and he did not. I did not even have to look back, I just watched the large silly colored pointer on my HUD that signified his aircraft zoom quickly to the bottom of the screen, scratch on La-7.......

And at that I had enough "fun" and jumped onto a server with realistic settings and began doing all those hard, senseless things that WWII pilots had to do, like actually looking for other aircraft and identifying them without having large colored banners and arrows pointing at them...

So you ditched a friend for not knowing which server to play on.

I read the articles, they're all nice, I don't know how true they are but they seem plausible.

[Jumoschwanz]

The point is that after reading the articles, especially the first one, and seeing the many thousands of lives and aircraft lost in WWII in NON-COMBAT incidents, it is clear that maintaining and flying a WWII fighter plane was not a game. If anything it is far too easy to fly IL2 even on realistic settings.

I hear IL2 pilots crying all the time about this or that aircraft because it is too hard for them to control it in turning fights, they spin out or crash or stall. I don't do it in the same plane and lots of their wingmen don't have a problem either, they are the problem.

Flying IL2 on Realistic settings should be hard and a challenge that not all are up to, just as not everyone you know would be able to fly a real one, most of them would wash-out in training or simply not have the nerve or aptitude. A lot of people can not even drive an automobile without regularly getting into fender-benders and ditches.

If you can tough it out flying IL2 on realistic settings then you should feel good about it, especially if you are not the best at it but you keep on trying and learning in silence while having fun.

If all you need is a simple game then by all means fly easy settings and enjoy it, but don't try and discredit flying IL2 on Realistic settings because you can't do it. The history and facts definitely say that flight sims are not for everyone, just as flying an actual aircraft is not.

[IceFire]

He doesn't sound like much of an expert. Just a guy playing (but maybe not enjoying) the game.

IMHO, I'm not a fan of that specific server for the no boom and zoom policy but lets stop judging people for enjoying the settings the way they like it. Too much of that going on recently.

[sniperton]

Hmm, the feel of gravitation and the 180 degrees of FOV surely helps a lot in RL, but flying a sim combat plane is much, much easier IMHO. In RL I would not be allowed, and would not even dare, to take my hands on any plane except perhaps a glider or a small grasshopper.
Those loss statistics are damn real, and are confirmed by personal memoires as well (e.g. LeRoy Gover's Spitfires, Thunderbolts, and Warm Beer).

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by IceFire

but lets stop judging people for enjoying the settings the way they like it. Too much of that going on recently.

Right, my acquaintance said that flying Realistic settings was bogus because aircraft were not that hard to fly in WWII, he was judging pilots that enjoy flying realistic settings without any of the facts, which I spent my good time finding for him. If you want I could poke around for a reading instructor for you?

[KG26_Alpha]

There's as much comparison with all 2D sims be it cars, bikes, planes or tanks none are realistic at your desktop level PC incarnation to real life
perhaps only visually and audibly can direct comparisons be made.

I cant understand why anyone would think game settings makes anything more realistic,
they simply change the games settings and make nothing realistic just makes the game more difficult.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

There's as much comparison with all 2D sims be it cars, bikes, planes or tanks none are realistic at your desktop level PC incarnation to real life
perhaps only visually and audibly can direct comparisons be made.

I'd think without further training and in an easy to fly plane with a flight instructor present most of the people having a few hundred flight hours in IL-2 would be able to make a few basic maneuvres - no start and landings of course - but I may be wrong. After all you learn a few things about flight physics in IL-2 that are still valid in real life. I'd expect the most startling difference would be the feeling of gravitational forces. I'd bet there are a few virtual pilots out there, that have flown planes in real life, maybe they can tell us something about RL vs. IL?