Turns and "the ball"

[Raven Morpheus]

This probably applies as much to all planes as it does the US planes but the ball seems to be a more common feature in US planes so I'll use those as an example...

Simple question -

In a turn should I be "stepping on the ball" the same as I should be when flying level?

I've seen vids on youtube that state you're not supposed to use rudder in a turn (or avoid it if possible)?

TIA

[MaxGunz]

Keep The Ball centered to keep your plane pointing where it's going.

Ball not centered means you are flying in a slip or skid condition. Stalling in a slip or skid is how to get into a spin, especially when at more than 1G which is most turns (you could turn while descending and not be > 1 G) and with enough > 1 G is an accelerated stall (under loaded conditions) that with slip makes for a hard, fast spin.

Actually in a turn you might want The Ball slightly IIRC inside but centered works and it's far easier to remember.

When you're flying straight and trying to shoot, flying in slip will put your shots off to one side of the pipper. If you can use that then fine.

Anybody that says not to rudder in turns is either a fool or trying to get easy targets. It's much like people who tell you to fly slow and use flaps a lot.

Lastly, flying with 2 or 3 degrees of slip to fool someone targeting you is a valid historic tactic to get the attacker or potential attacker to perceive you as turning just by the attitude of your plane and miss the first shot which hopefully you see. Look for BoB videos of a pilot named Bob Doe talking about that. There's others but I remember his name.

If you have any doubts, go and test with mind conscious of what you're checking. Don't just think about it or talk and be fooled. TEST. CHECK.

PS
Spitfires have Turn and Slip needle gauges way down on the lower right front panel. They're hard to check in the game and still see where you're going. I don't remember any but British planes without The Ball.

Learning to rudder right is a matter of practice on a per-plane basis. Practice just flying with your view down enough to see The Ball and in time you won't have to check it much the same as you don't have to watch your speedometer every second when you drive.

[Raven Morpheus]

Thanks, that's what I thought.

[K_Freddie]

Depends on the aircraft, and how you're turning.
Keeping the ball centred is generally encouraged, but when you're going slow and with high AoA, with a high revving engine, you have to counter many forces with the rudder... and the ball does funny things.
Sometimes you must use outside references to fly it through.

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Anybody that says not to rudder in turns is either a fool or trying to get easy targets. It's much like people who tell you to fly slow and use flaps a lot.


If you have any doubts, go and test with mind conscious of what you're checking. Don't just think about it or talk and be fooled. TEST. CHECK.

Highly recommend this test check approach. Forums are always filled with foolish, ignorant and half-ass experts who insist on giving out advices. I remember when I first started playing IL-2, someone "expert" told me to set my x52pro 100% sensitivity across the board. I took his "holy grail" and had a lot of difficulty aiming and getting kills. Then he told me it was because some planes' fm is porked and unrealistic. I believed in him and followed his suit to bitch about fms. Later I read beginner nugget by Pandabear. Then I realized my problem. After tuning down sensitivity, I was suddenly able to reap in a large number of kills. My aim became much more accurate and my planes seldomly stalled. Now if I feel anything that I don't know, I would first do a bit research then test and try myself to fully understand the issue.

[K_Freddie]

A lot of advice should be seen in context, usually is not
The best is to try out what you think is suitable for you, and adjust if necessary.

100% settings for me work so well, i'd never change for anything.

[MaxGunz]

Whatever stick settings you use, don't grip the stick tight and never rest the weight of your hand/arm on the stick.

Practice out of combat holding the stick with thumb and one or two fingers. Get to know what flying with a light touch can do.

Knowing ain't half the battle if you don't PRACTICE. Practice flying first. Practice shooting second. Practice fighting until you change planes, then start over as flying all planes the same is how to be mediocre.

[Buster_Dee]

When I flew little planes I was always annoyed that, on takeoff turning to cross-wind, I found myself using opposite rudder. Then again, that wasn't the only thing that confused me. I "gave up" the hobby in a farmer's field.

[MaxGunz]

Had you been through ground school and all that?

[Laurwin]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

Keep The Ball centered to keep your plane pointing where it's going.

Ball not centered means you are flying in a slip or skid condition. Stalling in a slip or skid is how to get into a spin, especially when at more than 1G which is most turns (you could turn while descending and not be > 1 G) and with enough > 1 G is an accelerated stall (under loaded conditions) that with slip makes for a hard, fast spin.

Actually in a turn you might want The Ball slightly IIRC inside but centered works and it's far easier to remember.

When you're flying straight and trying to shoot, flying in slip will put your shots off to one side of the pipper. If you can use that then fine.

Anybody that says not to rudder in turns is either a fool or trying to get easy targets. It's much like people who tell you to fly slow and use flaps a lot.

Lastly, flying with 2 or 3 degrees of slip to fool someone targeting you is a valid historic tactic to get the attacker or potential attacker to perceive you as turning just by the attitude of your plane and miss the first shot which hopefully you see. Look for BoB videos of a pilot named Bob Doe talking about that. There's others but I remember his name.

If you have any doubts, go and test with mind conscious of what you're checking. Don't just think about it or talk and be fooled. TEST. CHECK.

PS
Spitfires have Turn and Slip needle gauges way down on the lower right front panel. They're hard to check in the game and still see where you're going. I don't remember any but British planes without The Ball.

Learning to rudder right is a matter of practice on a per-plane basis. Practice just flying with your view down enough to see The Ball and in time you won't have to check it much the same as you don't have to watch your speedometer every second when you drive.

IF you want to make a sustained turn, keeping the aircraft at the same altitude all the time during the turn. Then you must do as MaxGunz tells in underlined part.

The reason for level-turning, (turning at the same altitude during the turn) and keeping ball "not centered" is due to physics of flight.

WHEN you pull the stick back, at the same time as your aircraft is "rolled" slightly to the right for example.

This causes extra lift, which causes your nose to rise up slightly when you turn right, with only using aileron and elevator... Extra lift is caused by elevator action.

The rudder action must be used to counteract the elevator action, and therefore counter the nose-rising effect of turning (when you are making a turn to the right for example)

Rudder action neutralizes the extra lift caused by elevator (elevator is caused by pulling back the stick of course!)

This was explained in a wikipedia article about physics of flight surfaces as I recall...

Specific case where this could be important to remember... There aren't verry many scenarios like this. But sometimes It's good to know that for accurate shooting at the same time when turning, you gotta remember rudder at the same time when turning.

Imagine that you're spitfire... Youre turning 90deg to the left, flying at low altitude. You're going to attack a bomber from 90 deg deflection shot. When you are at the same altitude as the target. you have to aim accurately along target's fuselage. You cannot shoot "above bomber's head" you must aim at the correctly at the fuselage because it's the only visible part of the target so to speak... (side fuselage of bomber present smaller target than from above or below...)