Still not convinced with 4.10 Seafire FM.

SEE · #1 02-02-2011, 04:54 PM

T.D., anyone who buys a copy of Il2 and patches to 4.10 might be a bit bewildered in the relative performance of the F4F-4 compared with the Seafire LIII. Reading the Aircraft guide, one will be decribed as having poor Maneouverabilty and the other 'excellent'. Be impartial and set up two Pacific Dgen campaigns that feature these ac and compare their maneouverability - go through a few missions for each but start off the deck not in the air- they are now reversed! It doesn't make any sense based on what I have read about the Seafire. I am not a 'winger' but please corrcet me if I am wrong (and BTW, this has nothing to do with the other 4.10 Spifire FM's - that has been well covered in my other thread) but I would like to hear what others say based on an impartial test comparing both these ac in the Pacific theatre against the nimble Zero. The F4F-4 is vastly superior to the Seafire....what do others think?

pupo162 · #2 02-02-2011, 04:57 PM

without tryign to be offtopic, the f4f has been, on 4.09 and 4.10, a relatively good manveareble plane, compared at least with other american planes ( f6f hellcat and the other cats). This is offcourse a subjective opinion

JtD · #3 02-02-2011, 05:12 PM

The Seafire outturns, outruns and outclimbs the F4F. It's also far more responsive to control input. It is more manoeuvrable.

SEE · #4 02-02-2011, 06:02 PM

Not in my 4.10 patch, otherwise I wouldn't have posted but I hope others will try them and make an impartial comparison. If everyone agrees with you then I bow out gracefully (or hide my F4F-4 and re-model it to look like a Seafire.....

)

JtD · #5 02-02-2011, 06:16 PM

You know, you could try the following:

Go to the quick mission builder and set up a 16 vs 16 or even 32 vs 32 dogfight between Seafire and F4F. Make sure the pilot skills are the same for both sides. Hit fly, engage autopilot and watch the show.

I did a 16 vs 16 once, and all F4F got shot down in exchange for 5 Seafires. Not really a manoeuvring contest, more an overall comparison, but still a nice indicator.

And definitely hilarious to watch.

SEE · #6 02-02-2011, 06:29 PM

I will try that but I have based my post on Pacific Dgen campaigns against the Zeros (1942 circa), the F4's outperforms the Seafire in T&B against the Zero and almost impossible to stall, retains it's energy far better. I tried B&Z with the Seafire and that's about the only way I could maintain any form of repectable energy to deal with the Zero. .....is it me?

JtD · #7 02-02-2011, 07:33 PM

Just did another thing for fun. Put me in a Seafire vs. an AI ace A6M2. Got onto its tail, stayed there. It got boring, so I pulled inside, overtook it, and outturned it again.

Check the track and try it in an F4F.

I carried full fuel.

SEE · #8 02-02-2011, 08:25 PM

Cheers JtD, I have downloaded the Track and will look at it several times then set up similar with both ac to make a comparison. Out of interest where did you upload that Track so that I could download it from a link in a thread? The Seafire looks fine in that track, I need to find out why mine cannot hold that airspeed when chasing a Zero in a similar turn. I don't have any probs with the F4 and get 3 times the number of kills on full switch (in SP!).......maybe I need to transfer to the USN......

IceFire · #9 02-02-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEE

Cheers JtD, I have downloaded the Track and will look at it several times then set up similar with both ac to make a comparison. Out of interest where did you upload that Track so that I could download it from a link in a thread? The Seafire looks fine in that track, I need to find out why mine cannot hold that airspeed when chasing a Zero in a similar turn. I don't have any probs with the F4 and get 3 times the number of kills on full switch (in SP!).......maybe I need to transfer to the USN......

If given the choice I would pick the Seafire long before I would pick the Wildcat although the Wildcat is a fun aircraft now and again. The Wildcat's poor maneuverability is a bit of a misnomer... compared to European aircraft it's very good but compared to Japanese aircraft of similar date it's not.

What exactly is your method when dealing with the Zeros? Seafire versus Zero my preference would be to use the Seafire as an energy fighter instead of turning and burning which is what the Zero excels at. A notable historical case where this proved true was the RAAF's initial experience with the Zero versus Spitfire Vc at Darwin - the Spitfires suffered badly at least at first because they were trying to turn.

SEE · #10 02-02-2011, 09:28 PM

You are probably correct Icefire. I have found in 4.10 that Energy fighting with the Seafire is a better strategy but I suppose I have got so used to 4.09 where the Seafire was excellent in T&B against the Zero.

In QMB the Seafire is definitely fine but did notice that initial airspeed (and energy) is higher than possible in a Seafire DGEN campaigns where the combat is very close to the aircraft carriers and the new FM takes much longer for the Seafire to get anywhere near the combat speed or altitude that was possible in 4.09. In other words, I am attempting T&B with a much reduced airspeed at altitude and it may well be that this is why I have encountered problems even before combat begins. The DGen Pacific campaigns for the F4's have generally much longer flight times and gaining altitude and best combat speed is easier to manage. I still find the F4 a super stable ac in Il2 and enjoy flying it in 4.10 as it doesn't seem to suffer the overheating issue that I encountered in 4.09 (not sure if that was fixed by TD or wether I have learned to manage my engine temp since buying Il1946 lat year). But thanks, it's all very useful to me......