Gunnery Fundamental, tips and advice

[SlipBall]

My favorite subject in Clod
Do you have some tips or tricks about improved gunnery in game for others to try? Perhaps a favorite approach angle on an enemy, or an effective belt/convergence setting. Gunnery success is the bottom line in this game, and with a success, a player become content

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

My favorite subject in Clod
Do you have some tips or tricks about improved gunnery in game for others to try? Perhaps a favorite approach angle on an enemy, or an effective belt/convergence setting. Gunnery success is the bottom line in this game, and with a success, a player become content

Hi.
The 109 default convergence good enough. People overrated the importance of the low-distance convergence. The truth is, the current gun accuracy is so bad, the convergence doesn't really matters. When you shot from close distance, you probably kill the enemy with ANY convergence settings. But you can't shot it down from far, if the convergence is short. It's a fact, often noticed when we fight 1v1.

Improve the gunnery skill? I tell my favorite method: play offline, switch off the head shake, slow down the game, turn off the cockpit, and try to hit the targets with the shortest burst. The good thing with this method, you actually have to targeting, not just sprinkle a long burst, and wait for the enemy, to flying through it (and the slow motion is coool , you see the flying bullets, the impacts, etc.). If you can shot it down every angle and distance, switch back the features one after the other. You will see, the shaking apply mostly the head, and not the plane (common error, if the pilot try compensate the head shake. Not only hopeless, but the plane much less shaking, than the head). Switch back the cockpit, the dashboard hide the view, but you will remember the lead, which have to pull to hit the target. Set the time back to normal, and you can follow the enemy with much accurate maneuvers (in the slow game, you should flying rather with calculated maneuvers, not with instinct. I like very mouch the slow practicing, very effective, and fun

There are many theoretical materials on the internet, one of the best is the Horrido Schiessfibel. You can download TX-Gunslinger's english translate form www.mission4today.com/ You can learn the ammo types, the distance measuring with Revi, shooting angles, etc.

(We talked about a possibly new folders in the forum, it would be great, if the admins would make a separated folder for the combat tactics, flying regulations, theoretical materials. This topic is a best example...)

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

Hi.
The 109 default convergence good enough. People overrated the importance of the low-distance convergence. The truth is, the current gun accuracy is so bad, the convergence doesn't really matters. When you shot from close distance, you probably kill the enemy with ANY convergence settings. But you can't shot it down from far, if the convergence is short. It's a fact, often noticed when we fight 1v1.

Improve the gunnery skill? I tell my favorite method: play offline, switch off the head shake, slow down the game, turn off the cockpit, and try to hit the targets with the shortest burst. The good thing with this method, you actually have to targeting, not just sprinkle a long burst, and wait for the enemy, to flying through it (and the slow motion is coool , you see the flying bullets, the impacts, etc.). If you can shot it down every angle and distance, switch back the features one after the other. You will see, the shaking apply mostly the head, and not the plane (common error, if the pilot try compensate the head shake. Not only hopeless, but the plane much less shaking, than the head). Switch back the cockpit, the dashboard hide the view, but you will remember the lead, which have to pull to hit the target. Set the time back to normal, and you can follow the enemy with much accurate maneuvers (in the slow game, you should flying rather with calculated maneuvers, not with instinct. I like very mouch the slow practicing, very effective, and fun

There are many theoretical materials on the internet, one of the best is the Horrido Schiessfibel. You can download TX-Gunslinger's english translate form www.mission4today.com/ You can learn the ammo types, the distance measuring with Revi, shooting angles, etc.

(We talked about a possibly new folders in the forum, it would be great, if the admins would make a separated folder for the combat tactics, flying regulations, theoretical materials. This topic is a best example...)

Hi Tom
I found that the default convergence of the 109 is not the best to use. If you experiment with it, you will notice the hit ratio increasing or even decreasing, depending on your chosen settings.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

Hi Tom
I found that the default convergence of the 109 is not the best to use. If you experiment with it, you will notice the hit ratio increasing or even decreasing, depending on your chosen settings.

What convergence do you use? How many meters?

[Hellbender]

I have no problem with the default convergence of the 109E, especially with the MGs which are more than nice to fire from all angles at enemy aircraft sicne it is so easy to lead with them sicne their are palced on the nose. Much more difficult it is to do the same work with the Spit or Hurri with wing mounted guns. I loved all the nose mounted cannons and MGs in Il 2 1946.

In general, for Spits and Hurris, use a convergence around 200m or lower and fill the ammo belts with a mix of DeWilde and AP rounds. If possible, try to get as close as possible with your plane on the enemy aircraft and start perforating it.

[macro]

i use 110 meters.

for the spit it does matter

if you use long range conv. then you get 2 hit spots either side of your dot on the gun sight (at close range where you are far more likly to get hits), 110 (or another close setting) means both hit on the dot at close range. this means you have to fill up the site with the enemy Ac, but this also means you can aim at a specific part of the plane with all the guns, (i.e cockpit, fueltanks, weakspots on bombers etc). if all the guns are hitting the same spot, it doesnt take a long burst to destroy whatever they hit. being restricted to close combat also means you save ammo, as you only get 12 seconds of fire as it is.

thats my preference anyway

[5./JG27.Farber]

I use the 400 200 on cannons and 400 400 on MGs as per the Luftwaffe diagram. Like Tom said with the cannons they are fairley inaccurate and so for this reason I only use them for close range, like 100 metres on small targets like fighters. I also like to save ammo and confirm I am going to hit by using the MG's to draw on to the target and when you see hits fire the big guns... Tracers and or Beobachtung are good for this.

Firing on fighters dead 6 is kinda wasteful, the low volocity cannon rounds tend to go over and under the wings of your target as the wings are so thin from this angle. In fact from dead 6 you are better using the nose MG's to aim for the oil cooler or water rad as this will be just as crippling as a hole in the wing... Firing straight down the fusalage is largely wasteful.

The best target I feel for a fighter is 90 degree on top on from below as he turns. You often have to draw blind lead under your nose and experieced red pilots will add slip with the rudder so expect to miss sometimes. How ever the window for shooting is smaller so you use less ammo and the target is bigger so you have more chance of a hit. Ideally these shots are at less than 100 metres, wingspan of target fighter once in your recticle, you have to get close.

I had cannons for a long time set to 100metres however this only limits your options should you need to fire them at longer distance... Like to scare someone off your wingman. The cannon trails have a good phycological effect...


I'd really love to try a 109 with 8 wing MG's like the hurri set up just to see what its like...

Just my 2 cents, as always...

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

My favorite subject in Clod
Do you have some tips or tricks about improved gunnery in game for others to try? Perhaps a favorite approach angle on an enemy, or an effective belt/convergence setting. Gunnery success is the bottom line in this game, and with a success, a player become content

In the 109 I shoot at 115 meters.

At that range, a Spitfire's wings should be juuust narrower than the diameter of the revi, and the Hurri should be juuust wider.

Against bombers, I don't even use the cannons. Load armor-piercing rounds into your nose guns, and then just shoot at the tailgunner until you kill him, and then the engine cowling until you get the nice thick black smoke.

Usually ~200 rounds per bomber.

[SlipBall]

My style of aiming is always at the vertical mid rudder point of an aircraft that I sneak up on. Others situations are governed by our relation to each other, in each case different, naturally. On bombers I will start early, maybe 270 out and closing slow as possible, walking my guns in a tight left/right on rudder section, duration of burst very short at the beginning, but increase as I close. Almost always gunners are killed, many times the first burst may kill the pilot, and so ammo is not wasted.

Classified

Tracers are optional, I don't use them.


Slips dominator load Bf-109

Guns:

Gun 1. convergence vert. 170, hor. 140,--belt round load ratio 18/2--first 18 round: 7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart--next: 2 rounds: 7.92x57 S.m.K. Ub.m Zerl. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern

2. convergence vert. convergence vert. 200, hor. 160,--belt round load ratio 18/2--first 18 round: 7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart--next: 2 rounds: 7.92x57 S.m.K. Ub.m Zerl. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern

3. convergence vert. 115, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 100%--20x80 RB, m Geschoss

4. convergence vert. 115, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 100%--20x80 RB, m Geschoss

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Slips RED hot Rotol--BR-20 killer

Tracers are optional

Guns:

Gun 1. convergence vert. 125, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 1/10--first round:Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 10 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

2. convergence vert. 125, hor. 100,--belt round load ratio 4/1/6--4 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ--next: 1 round: Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 6 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

3. convergence vert. 150, hor. 125,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

4. convergence vert. 150, hor. 125,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

5. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 1/10--first round:Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 10 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

6. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 4/1/6--4 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ--1 round: Tracer (yellow), G, Infantery Long Range, 1000 yd, .303 inch, Cordite, Mark 2--next: 6 rounds Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

7. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

8. convergence vert. 275, hor. 250,--belt round load ratio 100%--Armour Piercing, W, .303 inch, Nitrocellulose, Mark IZ

Fighter killer: Gun 1-4 unchanged
5. 235/200
6. 235/200
7. 235/200
8. 235/200
　
　
　

[Hellbender]

For the Luftwaffe planes the "7.92x57 S.m.K.H. Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart" round has excellent performance against british planes. A couple of hits into the engine comaprtment of the British Fighters and they start smoking badly. Nice for attack where a lots of lead is required, for instacne when the Spitfire or the Hurricane is turning away. The 20mm cannons can be effective from 6 o´clock when you aim with the reticle at the upper part of the rudder of your target, then your cannon rounds should impact from close range in the wings of your target disabling it most likely.

For the SPitfire and Hurricane, I personally use a 173m (190 yards) convergence with the following load out:

1. Tracer - DeWilde
2. Tracer - AP
3. DeWilde
4. AP
5. AP
6. DeWilde
7. Tracer - AP
8. Tracer - DeWilde