Gunsight 109 propositions

On the occasion of reading the posts in this thread concerning a player's video:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...19455&page=137

I rethought the whole gunsight issue with the 109.

I watched MrX video and tried to use the implemented gunsight as he does. He seems to use it quite effectively. After some trials I came to the conclusion that when one uses hud view like Mr X the gunsight issue is not as bad (but still bad because it takes to much time to switch between positions - unrealistically long time).

However many if not most people use TrackIR and are further penalised not only by the duration of the animation but also by the animation itself.

Current animation of leaning forward and back is highly penalizing pilots because of its duration (too long. In reality it would take only a fraction of the time).

It also merges from a fixed head position to the gunsight and from the gunsight to this fixed head position. This penalizes in particular TrackIR users as when they switch to the gunsight their head is first jump-forced into that fixed head position before moving (slowly to the gunsight). Vice verca one is forced into that fixed head position when exiting gunsight mode before the sight jumps to the TrackIR head position.

With both ways you will have a more or less huge jump in the sight that you cannot control. This is completely destroying sighting for 109 drivers (for hud view users it is a lesser problem as their forward view = that fixed head position). Even if you look straight before switching to and from gunsight will cause the jump as your head will never be perfectly aligned with the fixed head position because of TrackIR.

If we really want the full reality in game as much as possible we would need a gunsight like as discussed in this thread:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...278#post270278

I really would prefer this solultion as it is most close to the real physics of binocular optics (humans have two eyes and not one. In game we only have one eye currently. Now they realise to add 3D cockpits for binocular view but what about binocular view of gunsights?).

Unfortunately some people just flame me for this opinion of mine (and some others) because they think it looks unusual and ugly (even though the real pilots would have seen it like this).

Perhaps we can settle this dispute in the future.

In the meanwhile and easy to implement I would like to ask the devs to realize:

Accelerate animation to times <0.3s (this is about what I measured for leaning your body forward and backward. Remember they never leaned to the right just forward and backward) and either:

1. Until implementing the real gunsight view: Go back to old IL2 logic and allow immediate switch from normal flight to gunsight mode. In gunsight mode allow for full head movement.

2. My suggestion if you stick to the animation (until implementing the real gunsight view): merge the current head position to the gunsight and vice versa.

[JG53_Valantine]

Have to say I agree: trackIR isn't really a benefit when aiming with the 109 at present - very clunky and slow; not something you want in the middle of a dogfight.
V

[trumps]

I do not like the whole time lag issue with the zooming to gunsight view, instead I usually Recenter the gun sight with the F12 key, then for zooming in I just switch between the wide FOV, and the narrow FOV, seems to be the best compromise as things are currently for me.

Craig

[flyingblind]

I agree with you Stormcrow. The best implementation would be the crosshairs floating outside the confines of the screen which is what the pilot would have seen. Unfortunately this effect can only be observed by a real pilot looking through a real sight because of his binocular vision. The utube vids of revi type sights show the crosshairs only visible when they coincide with the sight glass as per game as they are seen through the single lense of the camera. Such treatment of the sights as you suggest would look particularly realistic if not awsome when used with a 3D vision setup.

[Robo.]

I am a TrackIR user and I fly the 109 quite a lot. I don't feel penalised in any way and I take it as a game limitation regarding the real life binocular vision vs. 2d monitor. I can't think of any better way of portraying the Bf 109 gunsight but I believe that with some fiddling with the TrackIR curves, one can achieve prety much perfect control of the head movement and if you know where your aiming position is, you see the ReVi just where it's supposed to be.

I don't think that coming back to the Il-2 ninja Ctrl+F1 pilot or displaying the crosshair around the ReVi glass would be of any benefit to so called reality in the sim. I understand what you mean though, it took me a while to get use to it.

For all 109 pilots with TrackIR - I lean my head down and to the left a bit, then hit my center TIR button, which brings my aim straight in front of the gunsight and I keeps it there even during fierce dogfight. Compared to the 6DoF mod in Il-2, I obviously had to alter my profile (was too fast and agressive around the centre), but this certainly did the trick for me and it might for someone else, too.

Just my 0.02

[ZaltysZ]

I also use TrackIR and never switch views as there is no need for that because 6DOF works fine for me. It is interesting why others have such problems.

[howcome]

Yep, TrackIR works great for the 109 gunsight. More realistic having to lean slightly to get a good sight picture. How did I ever sim without TrackIR?

If you think thoroughly this thing through you will come to two principal conclusions:

1. Being forced to leaning sideways (and centering TrackIR when leaning left is absolutely identical in what TrackIR mechanics concerns) is penalizing as unlike with TrackIR center being ON gunsight you will be offset from the trackIR curve center whether you lean to the right or with centering TrackIR on a left side position). This will result in following effect: your head position with respect to TrackIR curve center being displaced your most tiny movements during aiming will result im much bigger virtual head movements adding up to the already existing head shake. You would have to edit your trackIr curves considerabley making it almost insensitive for small to medium headmovements. I consider this a considerable drawback. And I tried it both ways.

2. It is not realistic as NO German pilot ever leaned sideways. They just leaned forward and fullstop.

You finally may come also to the conclusion that this thing can be improved with very little effort by the developer. Why should we not ask them? It is not asking for something less realistic but in fact for something more realistic and which will be less awkward unlike it is now.

[ZaltysZ]

I simply don't feel penalized, because I even don't notice when I have to lean. It happens without much effort and almost automatically. In addition, BF109 is such plane, with which deflection shooting is essential, so I track targets not only turning my head, but leaning it too (i.e. avoiding situations, where canopy frames obscure the target and so on). This is very intuitive for me, and such things as centered sights and sight view look very intrusive.

P.S: my X,Y,Z curves are linear and sensitive.

No, they did not move sideways. Just forward gazing with one eye through the gun sight (that's what you do with a rifle too, don't you?). It is not by accident that the gunsight in German fighters is just at the same lateral distance from the centre as your eye from your nose.

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