Guncam footage - why aren't those gunners doing anything?

[Azimech]

Here is some collected footage, the part that is interesting is a bf-110 G2 attacking a B-17 from the rear, starting at 1:45. The rear and ventral gunners don't seem to fire back and it's possible they were out of ammo or already killed. The B-17 received much more hits than possible in IL2 1946 without catching fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oA9zy-qtxA

[Skarphol]

I think it might be very difficult to see that the gunners are firing back at you. The tracers will probably not be visible as the bullets are coming towards the camera, and the muzzle flashes are probably washed away by the 300 km/h wind.

Skarphol

[winny]

Here's just the part referenced..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G4KF...FD94BD4F55C2AD

The B-17 looks 'dead' to me, powered guns are hanging down and the side ones look to be abandoned too. My guess would be the crew (or what was left) already bailed.

[Erkki]

Good part of the crew is probably dead. Or at least the turrets are out of power...

[HenFre]

Take a look at 0:08.. I think it is a crewmember bailing out. Thought at first it was debris falling off the plane, but the Me-110 is not shooting at the B-17 at that very moment..

[IceFire]

I disagree about the number of hits... Although that B-17 took a pounding it was not hit as much as it takes to light a B-17 on fire, typically, in IL-2. Certainly the gunnery would need to be more accurate but in the couple of seconds that this Bf110 was firing he hit both port and starboard wings, engines, the tail section and the fuselage.

I remember watching that before and wondering the same thing about the lack of gunner response. But the ball turret doesn't look like it's doing anything at all. Just hanging downwards. So maybe everyone is right... the plane is already abandoned/dead.

[swiss]

I can't spot any major damage, the plane isn't burning or leaking anything, all 4 engines are still running - why would they abandon the plane?

I would guess most of them are dead/injured.
Also the plane banks several times and goes back to level flight; auto- or real pilot?

0:08: Whatever leaves the planes there is rotating damn fast. It's either a part of the plane that fell off or something they threw out.

[TheSwede]

I´ve seen this clip maybe 60 times over the years and I know that there are earlier moments of the same clip available somewhere on youtube.

In the longer clip the 110 closes in on the bomber from a low 8 o´clock position and before the pilot gains a firing solution you can see smoke coming from the tail gunner while firing. But I think he is silenced by the 110 later on.

So the ship is not abandon by all its crew members but the ball turret is in its locked position so maybe the intercom was shot up and just some of the gunners bailed.

[HenFre]

Originally Posted by swiss

0:08: Whatever leaves the planes there is rotating damn fast. It's either a part of the plane that fell off or something they threw out.

I do not think that the thing/crewmember is rotating. Allthough it looks like it is spinning around it seems to be because of the low quality and low resolution of the video.

But then again I could be wrong

[choctaw111]

Originally Posted by Skarphol

I think it might be very difficult to see that the gunners are firing back at you. The tracers will probably not be visible as the bullets are coming towards the camera, and the muzzle flashes are probably washed away by the 300 km/h wind.

Skarphol

Here is an interesting fact regarding tracers used in bombers and gunner positions.
There was a special tracer made solely for the purpose of the enemy being able to see them.
They were designated the M21 Headlight and were several times brighter than a normal tracer. Some versions even had holes on the side of the bullet so the tracer element would burn out the side and even more visible.
The idea was to distract or intimidate the enemy pilots.