King's Bounty, Homm5 Love CHild

Zechnophobe · #1 12-04-2009, 03:56 AM

While I do absolutely adore King's Bounty, there were still some concepts from Heros5 that I think were done better. I also have some opinions on the way the game in general works that I'd love to see changed. Here goes.

1) HOMM5 has a fluid turn system, instead of a fixed one. That means that units with higher initiative actually get to perform more actions than those with lower initiative. Your Hero was the same, in that he'd get an action every certain amount of time, and could always at least ride out and do a little damage. This was a really nice system that allowed for a lot of interesting balance.

2) As much as I like King's Bounty, I am getting a little tired of using the same units in most games, because other ones just aren't available. You always start in a human city, with human troops, and a few snakes, nearby to recruit. You never have any real dynamic choices early on in troop composition. Inquisitors, bowmen, king snakes... this list sounding familiar to anyone yet? Instead of starting in the same position in each game, and have a 'set' route through the game, I think it would be much more interesting if it varied.

3) I think reinforcement slots is a good idea, but let's take it a step further. Instead of having a fixed limit to the number of troops you can recruit and have in your army, instead allow the player to buy stacks of any size, but when combat starts only the amount the leadership allows for will actually enter combat. You can keep stocked on troops for as long as you want, without having to make boring trips back to the remote locations you found Evil Beholders, and you also don't have to micromanage your stacks as much when you level up or find leadership flags!

4) Tavern's are cool in this game, in that they tend to have an interesting assortment of troops. But wouldn't it be even cooler if they would restock every now and then? You go check the tavern and find it has a good number of some rare troop, if 3) has been done, you could buy an ample number of them now. Later on, people move, travellers from distant lands come, and now different mercenaries are there for hire. Adds more consistent excitement over these types of buildings.

5) You ever try out a big stack of some unit, only to find out it wasn't as good as you thought? It would be nice if you could do... SOMETHING with troops that you didn't want anymore, to recoup the losses. Sell into slavery, sacrifice to a demon god, whatever.

6) Another cool thing that was done in Homm5 (And other Homm games) is the existence of units of variable size. King's Bounty has a lovely strategic feel already due to the complex pathing and placement of troops, and I think units that are fundamentally larger than others would add a cool new layer to it, that is elegant and easy to understand. It would also be nice to see 'big' units like a black dragon take up more space than 'little' ones like a dragonfly or fairy.

7) Another nice Hero's line effect is building buildings in towns that give your hero's interesting static bonus'. For instance, necromancer's gaining increased necromatic power. I'd like to see more map objects that give things that are interesting, and not just 'rage/mana/stats' . Most interesting rewards end up being items that compete for space. Why not Titles that give us other interesting bonus'?

Lastly, I'd like to see SOME kind of 'fast action' gameplay option. This I draw more from games like Spectromancer, where you can easily pick up and play. Imagine a setting where you get a random hero and army, and face off against a different random hero and army. Etherlords 2 also did this nicely. So you don't have to sit down and play the entire epic campaign if you get a hankering for a little KB.

Direwolf · #2 12-04-2009, 04:33 AM

Zechno,

Some really good thoughts there...i really didn't see anything that i wouldn't endorse. Thanks for taking the time to capture your thoughts.

cheers,
DW

lauvhk · #3 12-04-2009, 06:33 AM

Nice idea.

Quick thought on 7. I remember back in Might & Magic (4&5, 7), you party can own a castle. I can't remember what you can actually do with your castle back then but it can nicely adapt to the HOMM style gameplay. You may win the castle by contest or by achieving nobility.

Mandea · #4 12-04-2009, 06:41 AM

as a matter of face I love KB much more than HOMM, even with its shortcomings. if homm6 doesn't take some ideas from KB, it won't be a great game

Elwin · #5 12-04-2009, 07:09 AM

I completly do not agree with point 2 at all ... KB is just that different that you can get any unit early in game with no fighiting ...

Zechnophobe · #6 12-04-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin

I completly do not agree with point 2 at all ... KB is just that different that you can get any unit early in game with no fighiting ...

It is maybe true that you can do that in AP, but in TL you actually had to fight fights to open up new areas. And doing this in AP where you... basically exploit past big fights to open up new lands doesn't really count. If you don't map kite, how many units can you really get? When are you going to get a demon army, or a lizard one? Even an Elf one?

Elwin · #7 12-04-2009, 07:49 AM

Its not exploiting and its posssible. ANd i love AP for that

DGDobrev · #8 12-04-2009, 09:15 AM

I really like all of the suggestions, especially the one the one about troop composition and alignment. It gets pretty boring to start with the stame troop composition, and be constantly on the lookout for Cyclops, Trolls and Demonologists in the early game. The idea for the taverns is also really good.

Still, I am worried that if KB takes on way too many "qualities" of HOMM, it will look more like a plagiarized game. I am confident that this is what the developers were trying to avoid.

lauvhk · #9 12-04-2009, 09:39 AM

There is one major difference that separates HOMM and KB. HOMM AI operates at 2 levels - the map/kingdom and the battlefield while KB AI mainly focuses on the battlefield. You could argue that KB AI also operates on the map but it is mainly with wandering enemies/heroes having a patrol route/ alert radius.

As long as the developer does not bring another level of AI into KB, I think it will remain sufficiently different as opposed to HOMM.

Zechnophobe · #10 12-04-2009, 04:42 PM

I think the only real copy cat would be 'big units'. Games using a continuum to determine battle order is not that uncommon by far, and having locations you can capture to get permanent bonus' is also fairly status quo for any role playing game.

Also, Lauvhk is very correct that there are a few fundamental differences between KB and HOMM.. mainly that one is a turn based game with strategic levels of management, and the other is a role playing game with tactical combat.