Mossie speed

[Thunderbolt_Br]

Hi all,

I saw in HardBall table that Mossie (in Il2) was only 3 Kph more fast than a FW-A4... tahts is correct? I ever read that Mk VI was superior in velocity over any axis plane at yout time...

In fact, in game I dont can run away from enemy fighters, unless emils or more olders one...

There is something that I can do to improve my speed flying mossies?


Thanks,

and forgivme for my English

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt_Br

Hi all,

I saw in HardBall table that Mossie (in Il2) was only 3 Kph more fast than a FW-A4... tahts is correct? I ever read that Mk VI was superior in velocity over any axis plane at yout time...

In fact, in game I dont can run away from enemy fighters, unless emils or more olders one...

There is something that I can do to improve my speed flying mossies?


Thanks,

and forgivme for my English

The semi-mythical speed advantage of the Mosquito is one of those stories that is half fact half fiction.

Early Mosquitoes were actually a touch SLOWER than the BF109 and Fw190 day fighters however they bombed at high altitude meaning by the time the Germans got up there the Mosquito had already shot through and the 109/190s did not have a sufficient speed advantage to catch up.

At night the story was different as German night fighters like the Bf 110 or Junkers Ju 88 simply had no hope of keeping up. The Heinkel He 219 and Junkers Ju 388 may have caught a Mosquito but neither entered large scale serial production. The Mosquito simply wasn't a large enough threat to warrant fast night fighters being specifically built just to catch it.

By late war the newer 109's, the Dora and the 262's had a clear speed advantage over the Mosquito. Even then the PR Mk 32 photo reconnaissance version with long-span wings, special high-altitude superchargers and the elimination of as much weight as possible had a reasonable (but not guaranteed) chance of avoiding interception.

Be careful not to put too much credence in the "myths" that have arisen about WWII.

[BG-09]

German Ace Heinz Knocke said in his diary that "the speed of the Mosquito was astonishing", but flying with Bf-109 he was slowly shorting the distance between his fighter and the Mosquito and shot the British bomber down in to the sea. Only big oil spot remain from the Mosquito. Both planes were flying at maximum speed close to the sea surface. the British bomber was trying to escape.

~S

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by BG-09

German Ace Heinz Knocke said in his diary that "the speed of the Mosquito was astonishing", but flying with Bf-109 he was slowly shorting the distance between his fighter and the Mosquito and shot the British bomber down in to the sea. Only big oil spot remain from the Mosquito. Both planes were flying at maximum speed close to the sea surface. the British bomber was trying to escape.~S

If this is the event I think you are referring to, it is questioned that it was a Mossie.

On the He219, be careful when one reads a top speed of 416mph. This was a striped down a/c that would have been almost useless as a night fighter. There was no radar antenna, the exhaust shrouds were removed as was some of the armament. Max speed of the He219 was around 360mph(600kph).

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

The semi-mythical speed advantage of the Mosquito is one of those stories that is half fact half fiction.

Early Mosquitoes were actually a touch SLOWER than the BF109 and Fw190 day fighters however they bombed at high altitude meaning by the time the Germans got up there the Mosquito had already shot through and the 109/190s did not have a sufficient speed advantage to catch up.
Be careful not to put too much credence in the "myths" that have arisen about WWII.

Original estimates were that, with twice the power of a Spitfire and twice the wetted area and over twice the weight, the Mosquito would still be 20mph (32km/h) faster than the Spitfire. The Air Ministry was very sceptical. When the prototype was officially tested at Boscombe Down in February 1941 they were proved wrong and it exceeded this estimate by achieving a top speed of 392mph (631km/h)

The early FW190 A3 had a top speed of 636Kph So one can assume the later FW190's were faster.
I agree that height and speed made them harder to catch with the early Fw having a ceilng of only 12000m it would be hard to take down a mossie but not impossible

The recon version of the Mossie - DH MOSQUITO PR.34

maximum speed: 685 KPH (425 MPH / 370 KT)
service ceiling: 13,100 meters (43,000 feet)
range: 5,375 kilometers.
While all stats are subjective war time propaganda most probably made the mossie a myth it unfortuantely was more than capable of living up to.
The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber

http://www.dhmosquito.com/

[brando]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber

http://www.dhmosquito.com/

It's worth noting another factor here, I think, and that is regarding so-called 'hedge-hopping attacks' over land. The Mossie was of course a side-by-side two-seater, and the extra pair of eyes must have been a vital factor in a plane flying at high speed whilst hugging the terrain. This kind of attack avoids radar, gives flak-gunners the briefest opportunity to range in, and also makes the aircraft hard to detect and pursue by fighters. Having a buddy next to you must make detection of obstacles, adjustments of heading and arrival on target and so on an easier task for the pilot to accomplish.

One might even suggest that a successful return, whilst desirable, is not the most important factor to the mission-planners. If one or several aircraft making this kind of approach can nail the target and cause great devastation then the mission is successful. No amount of kills by the defence forces after the event can change that.

Just my 2d-worth

Brando

[mazex]

Here's a story I found when doing a skin for one of the BOAC operated civilian Mossies that flew secret night time missions from Scotland to Sweden (they had no guns so they where naturally lighter than the armed version):

"On the 18:th of July 1943, Mosquito G-AGGC after leaving the Swedish coast at 7.600 meters noticed condensation trails – one above and one behind the a/c, presumed to be from Focke-Wulf 190s. Rae, The pilot turned into the fighters and then dived in a spiral down to the sea level, leveled out and gave full throttle. Indicated airspeed was 570 Km/h and the course set for Leuchars. In the full moon the attacking fighters had no problem seeing the Mossie and the chase was on for half an hour without the attackers gaining on the Mosquito. The Germans gave up, probably because of fuel shortage. BOAC's instruction was that if an aircraft was attacked over the eastern part of Skagerak, the pilot was to turn back because of the risk of fuel starvation if entangled in a long chase. However, this time Gilbert Rae decided to continue the flight because he had a Danish officer on board who had just escaped the Gestapo."

It seems they had real problems shaking those 190:s - and it's interesting that they used 190:s as night fighters. Maybe to catch Mossies?

/Mazex

[Thunderbolt56]

The Mossie modeled in IL2 is the earlier version that doesn't produce the horsepower nor speed of the later models. It is truly competitive in pre-1942 scenarios, but after that it's easily outclassed.

[Thunderbolt_Br]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt56

The Mossie modeled in IL2 is the earlier version that doesn't produce the horsepower nor speed of the later models. It is truly competitive in pre-1942 scenarios, but after that it's easily outclassed.

I agree

As I like to built historic mission to play with my friends, and I like fly Mosquistos, only in a Burma scenario Mossie became a pleaseant option


Thanks pals

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

The kill quoted earlier in this thread is of a mossie out of its element, flying low, someting it was not really meant to do???? I could be wrong on that but I always assumed a mossie was a high altitude fighter/bomber.

Early Mossies used single stage two speed superchargers (Merlin 20 series) which hurt its performance at altitude just like the Allison V-1710 hurt at altitude.

Get hold of the Osprey books on the Mossie.